Grime and the media

[straight]

if there was a villalobos article it'd probably end up trying to link minimal with new rave or some bollocks and interview members of hadouken about it.
i think this is a symptom of one of grime's problems, the US hip hop 'look at me, give me that stuff' attitude that proliferates. the music will stay underground as long as the musics uncompromising and the scene is full of violence and biters. I think this adds to the appeal, i sure as hell can't remeber the last time i stumped up some cash for a top 40 album. Grime's become a cottage industry is able to develop more freely away from major label influence. the www has meant that you can reach insane amounts of people without having to deal with label hassle. you dont get noise guys s wingeing about the lack of mainstream press attention, they do it themselves

 

[mos dan]

My girlfriend is in a band which manages itself and has been interviewed by everywhere mentioned on this thread, as well as tons of other places, and they've always been punctual, conscientious and available to do stuff at the drop of a hat (ie backstage at shows for student and local papers etc) so this is bollocks.

People like Borrell are the most likely to be like this too, as they want to make it and are prepared to do what it takes.

good for your girlfriend, and good for her band. people like that make my job a hell of a lot easier. and yeah, fair enough, there are clearly artists out there willing to put the work in.

HOWEVER. i think you're dreaming if you reckon this means other rock stars necessarily behave like that. do you think borrell manages himself, and does his own p.r.? do you think he could if he had to? we're both being conjectural here i know, but for my part i don't think rock bands would be any better or worse than grime artists if they had to do without the music industry infrastructure that is laid on for them on a plate.

incidentally fuda guy, logan (lol) and wiley - my only extensive grime interviews that have been more than just quick spontaneous chats - were on time, enthusiastic, positive, and gave me great copy.

 

[crackerjack]

good for your girlfriend, and good for her band. people like that make my job a hell of a lot easier. and yeah, fair enough, there are clearly artists out there willing to put the work in.

HOWEVER. i think you're dreaming if you reckon this means other rock stars necessarily behave like that. do you think borrell manages himself, and does his own p.r.? do you think he could if he had to? we're both being conjectural here i know, but for my part i don't think rock bands would be any better or worse than grime artists if they had to do without the music industry infrastructure that is laid on for them on a plate.

incidentally fuda guy, logan (lol) and wiley - my only extensive grime interviews that have been more than just quick spontaneous chats - were on time, enthusiastic, positive, and gave me great copy.

I've met a few people who've worked in music pr who'll tell you hip hop folk are - whopping generalisation coming up - far & away the worst to work with. Never yet heard the same thing applied to grime artists, but then I don't know that many who've had professional prs.

 

[spotrusha]

if you think duppy is disposable you're on a mad one m8. that tune tears up every single rave i've ever heard it played at, and has done so for the last 18 months.

okay that may be true, but if i have to explain to you why dudes screaming the same thing over and over on top of a beat made in 25 minutes is disposable compared to a band like the arcade fire in the eyes of the media, then i give up. and i like wiley/skepta and don't like the arcade fire at all, i'm just sayin.

also, we're talking about rock magazines. i don't pick up atm and expect to see an arctic monkeys spread inside. tinchy might not be a mainstay in nme, but we have rwd and touch. also, did someone say that the crime mob have an interesting story? are you living on the same planet as me? haha

 

[Tactics]

that's not right but

there are other opportunities opening up. my boy puts a lot of names in echoes and the mags he write for who previously would have had no-one (i'm talking two main pages an issue here) plus hhc seem to be opening up there doors. touch aswell

it seems you guys are concerned with crossover press...aren't you lot always saying that crossovers aren't important? cos they AREN'T. yet. instead let the artists and management get their acts sucessfully in these mags first, negotiate that terrain, which will loop back into those mags being sucessful and THEN (and only then) will papers come knocking by which at that point these artists will have more leverage. I think you guys are getting lost looking at the big picture. imo

but i'm gonna say this again for those who didn't get it the first time

...

of course the artists in the scene don't want the name - THEY DIDN'T CREATE IT OR TAG THEIR MUSIC WITH IT - it was the f****** press

 

[Tyro]

My girlfriend is in a band which manages itself and has been interviewed by everywhere mentioned on this thread, as well as tons of other places, and they've always been punctual, conscientious and available to do stuff at the drop of a hat (ie backstage at shows for student and local papers etc) so this is bollocks.

People like Borrell are the most likely to be like this too, as they want to make it and are prepared to do what it takes.

Do they regard punctuality as the new rock n roll then?? Has it really come to this.They would wait for Prince though wouldnt they? Or Prince Charles perhaps.


http://www.myspace.com/thekandytangerineman

 

[john eden]

okay that may be true, but if i have to explain to you why dudes screaming the same thing over and over on top of a beat made in 25 minutes is disposable compared to a band like the arcade fire in the eyes of the media, then i give up. and i like wiley/skepta and don't like the arcade fire at all, i'm just sayin.

All the evidence suggests that it isn't disposable.

Big Youth chatting stuff over Studio One riddims which were laid down in 25 minutes is still hard currency 30 years later.

Ditto 'ardkore etc.

Both of which were denigrated at the time. So I suppose at least there is consistency with this.

 

[gumdrops]

alex petridis did an article on tardy hip hop artists once and said they were the new rockers cos of their blase attitude to interviews (eg - pharrell doing the interview in bed, ludacris falling asleep etc etc)

 

[spotrusha]

but i'm gonna say this again for those who didn't get it the first time

...

of course the artists in the scene don't want the name - THEY DIDN'T CREATE IT OR TAG THEIR MUSIC WITH IT - it was the f****** press

okay, then. in record shops, we'll take down the grime section in record stores and let each artist make up their own name for their unique brand of groundbreaking musical style.

 

[DJL]

The reason grime doesn't get coverage is that it was ahead of its time when the mainstream started taking interest and they didn't understand it. Now the cultural climate has changed and they can't swallow their pride. Grime has more bollocks, energy and effort in it than the mainstream press have ever had.

They can fuck off until THEY get THEIR attitude right. They are behaving like fascists. They have been for several years. They know this. Grime will never die while that still goes on.

 

[spotrusha]

All the evidence suggests that it isn't disposable.

Big Youth chatting stuff over Studio One riddims which were laid down in 25 minutes is still hard currency 30 years later.

Ditto 'ardkore etc.

Both of which were denigrated at the time. So I suppose at least there is consistency with this.

yes bruv, i agree. but i said in the eyes of the media.
so you're saying you want nme to include the boogie times tribe lp in their annual 100 most influential albums of all time list? (i'm just guessing that exists)

 

[Slothrop]

I think people are on the right tack when they say that this isn't a problem confined to grime, has anyone ever seen a piece on villalobos in a mainstream paper?

I think part of the problem is that the mainstream press still haven't really got their heads around how to cover a club / DJ / 12" based scene rather than a gig / band / album based one. They still want big auteur dance acts who don't sound anything like anyone else. You'd think this'd be less of an issue with grime though, since the MC's stick out pretty well as the obvious people to talk to...

Do people think there'd be any value in just writing in to people like the OMM or the grauniad whenever they do give any coverage to grime (or minimal or funky house or whatever else floats your boat) saying how glad you are that someone's finally giving this vital, vibrant scene the publicity it deserves and that it's nice to see that a newspaper that's meant to be left leaning and progressive doesn't only concern itself with the voice of middle class white kids... Obviously it'd look cheesy if they got the same ten identical letters for the same ten people every time, but generally showing some appreciation might give the impression that their readership doesn't just consist of forty-somethings who want to know which MOR indie-rock album to listen to in their sensible family car this month.

 

[Tyro]

The reason grime doesn't get coverage is that it was ahead of its time when the mainstream started taking interest and they didn't understand it. Now the cultural climate has changed and they can't swallow their pride. Grime has more bollocks, energy and effort in it than the mainstream press have ever had.

They can fuck off until THEY get THEIR attitude right. They are behaving like fascists. They have been for several years. They know this. Grime will never die while that still goes on.

I'm happy for the artists to call their music what they like.When someone TRYS to make a GRIME tune,a PUNK tune or whatever they are sure to be aiming low and the result will be derivative.But,equally you should file the thing where we all expect to find it.

http://www.myspace.com/thekandytangerineman

 

[Tactics]

there's a grime section?

okay, then. in record shops, we'll take down the grime section in record stores and let each artist make up their own name for their unique brand of groundbreaking musical style.

lol

ok ok let me not make fun but...the artists didn't name their music this and didn't (a lot still don't) want it as it actually impedes them selling units a lot of time and growth via pigeonholing. check rwd forum and here for that

wouldn't it be better for them to come up with a name themselves? what are you implying that their too uneducated to come up with a name?

polz actually made a very good constructive criticism post above me ^^

 

[spotrusha]

sorry but i don't believe that the media made up grime out of nowhere. it had to have come from somewhere in the scene.

 

[gumdrops]

just read reviews of the aftershock and roll deep mix-cds in plan b btw - they have a roll deep interview too. i like that mag. they at least cover everything.

 

[Tactics]

some people on here have answers

sorry but i don't believe that the media made up grime out of nowhere. it had to have come from somewhere in the scene.

and are directly responsible...

true stories

also what happned is that a few dj's kept saying "so what do you lot wanna hear? 2-step or that grimier stuff? miss call me blah blah"

I remember that being said a lot on de ja, raw mission and freeze

 

[DJL]

sorry but i don't believe that the media made up grime out of nowhere. it had to have come from somewhere in the scene.

There were loads of names being bandied around when 'Grime' stuck. People on RWD forum were using 'Grime' more than other words to describe it. Sidewinder then used it on one of their flyers and that seemed to seal it.

 

[mos dan]

this keeps coming up again and again "rock bands have better changes, it's not fair, boohoo"

this is so pathetic and immature. even if it is true, do your own thing and stop complaining about other people have better luck.

the grime artists aren't complaining. their attitude, from what i see, is not anger but one of weary resignation. fuda guy on not being allowed to perform in london, in his HOME CITY: "that's just the way it is. (sigh)". this sense of the massive obstacles faced by inner london's black youth informs most of their lives.

so they're not whingeing, they're not crying. they ARE doing their thing, and they're doing it fucking well, for very little recognition.

i'll tell you who's complaining: i'm complaining, cos i'm white, m/c, articulate and i've got connections. but i'm not just sitting in my fucking bedroom whingeing about it (okay, i am right now, lol), i'm working to try and bring this music to a wider audience. when the guardian arts ed said 'no' to a wiley piece, i didn't cry about it, i talked him into it.

there are substantial, ingrained prejudices in the british music media, and i would like them to be eroded. so many haterz man, christ. about 'stop complaining', ha!

 

[gumdrops]

from what i know, a lot of mags were initially slow getting behind grime cos a) they hated it b) thought it was a flash in the pan but now its still about, they either feel bad for not getting into it before so are waiting for it to go away or feel weird getting on it now, or just still hate it and are still waiting for it to go under. most people are like what semtex was saying, that they think itll just vanish in a few years and that will be the end of that. then theres also the typical british attitude of thinking everything we make over here is shit or imitative or embarassing or whatever so you have that inferiority complex to deal with too. but the thing is that now i see mags like one week to live doing more stuff on grime but it seems a bit late. theyre covering it now when its on a downturn, not when it was coming up and vital. better late than never and all that but its a shame.