Freestyle
- Thread starter baboon2004
- Start date
This tune is amazing!!! If anyone knows what it is/who its by could they drop some knowledge, they'd be new hero (for the day)
& the opening song is hype as well - BadBoyBill indeed! I was in grade 1 when this went to air - tooo much
Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
Can Edward or Charlie clear up the difference between electrofunk and freestyle? Cos a lot of these records I would call electrofunk.
Like is Sharon Redd - Never Give You Up a freestyle record? Or is it too early/synthy/disco-derived to qualify?
No, there's no freestyle on those old Chicago club mixes on deep house pages. Chicago house doesnt have the density in the rhythm programming, does it? It's all Bmm-Tss-Bmm-Tss-Bmm-Tss-Bmm-Tss. I think they copied the mad-ass vocal edits thing, but put it on a disco drum track.
Loads of freestyle influence in early Detroit though. X-Ray - Let's Go is basically a freestyle track. The early Derrick May stuff like The Dance and Wiggin owe way more to freestyle than they do to Chicago. I think Kevin Saunderson was the driver behind that, I read that he had family in NY (I think that's in Energy Flash actually). There's a 727-heavy mix of Kreem - Triangle Of Love that holds it's own against NY freestyle.
Like is Sharon Redd - Never Give You Up a freestyle record? Or is it too early/synthy/disco-derived to qualify?
No, there's no freestyle on those old Chicago club mixes on deep house pages. Chicago house doesnt have the density in the rhythm programming, does it? It's all Bmm-Tss-Bmm-Tss-Bmm-Tss-Bmm-Tss. I think they copied the mad-ass vocal edits thing, but put it on a disco drum track.
Loads of freestyle influence in early Detroit though. X-Ray - Let's Go is basically a freestyle track. The early Derrick May stuff like The Dance and Wiggin owe way more to freestyle than they do to Chicago. I think Kevin Saunderson was the driver behind that, I read that he had family in NY (I think that's in Energy Flash actually). There's a 727-heavy mix of Kreem - Triangle Of Love that holds it's own against NY freestyle.
Well obviously all these words mean whatever the person using them wants them to mean - just look at the continuing slippage of "electro" from its original meaning to practically its opposite.
but....
I would say electrofunk (or electro!) starts with records like Planet Rock and Clear and also people trying to copy Kraftwerk, Prince and Zapp but doing it in a very ghetto/stripped-down way. Any vocals will be rapped or spoken usually.
Freestyle is 99% NYC latino community, nearly always with sung vocals in a minor key pop style, some latin percussion sounds, the "clave" rhythm is usually prominent in there.
Of course there's a lot of records you could say were both/either.
I wouldn't call X-Ray freestyle at all, it's got 4/4 kick all the way through for a start and almost no chord changes. Kevin Saunderson did release a couple of straight freestyle tunes such as K-Os "Definition Of Love" (also with techno mixes on the 12 but check the orig!)
but....
I would say electrofunk (or electro!) starts with records like Planet Rock and Clear and also people trying to copy Kraftwerk, Prince and Zapp but doing it in a very ghetto/stripped-down way. Any vocals will be rapped or spoken usually.
Freestyle is 99% NYC latino community, nearly always with sung vocals in a minor key pop style, some latin percussion sounds, the "clave" rhythm is usually prominent in there.
Of course there's a lot of records you could say were both/either.
I wouldn't call X-Ray freestyle at all, it's got 4/4 kick all the way through for a start and almost no chord changes. Kevin Saunderson did release a couple of straight freestyle tunes such as K-Os "Definition Of Love" (also with techno mixes on the 12 but check the orig!)
Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
Ok, yeah, if the pop song thing is a big part of freestyle then that would exclude things like Let's Go that were conceived from the off as 7 minute plus dance records. I still contend that Let's Go is waaaay heavier on the latin percussion than anything from Chicago, and it's got that jaggedness to it that freestyle has. I guess the Belville three are what they are, that's why we luv 'em so
I would fuggin' love an ID on this! What a great track. The shuffle on that synth is just killing it.
Is that even a 303?
I reckon anything with a 4/4 kick is not freestyle..... but anyway... it's a great track, especially the "freak mix" on fantasy....
It's definitely NOT a 303 on the mystery track, sounds a lot like an MC202 or SH101....
And.... the mystery track is:
Freeze by Scrappy on Zap Records, pretty rare chicago tune from 88.
It's definitely NOT a 303 on the mystery track, sounds a lot like an MC202 or SH101....
And.... the mystery track is:
Freeze by Scrappy on Zap Records, pretty rare chicago tune from 88.
Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
King of the IDs, sir!
Never come across Zap records before. Do you have anything else on that label Edward?
(sorry this is gonna get nerdy, non-tech readers please talk amongst yourselves for a moment).
I'm not sure, y'know? This is bugging me now, because I think the filter is a 303 filter. It definitively is not a 202, because I've got a 202 and I can't get it to sound like that. 202s are much colder in the treble. 101s I'm assuming are very similar because it's the same synth, though I've never used one.
What this actually sounds like is when I put another synth through the filter of my Syntechno Teebee but that synth dates from the 90s. Beats me how you'd do it in 1988 unless you took a soldering iron to your 303.
Barring that, I think it's maybe a very bizarrely programmed and EQ'd 303, possibly going through a crap transistor distortion pedal. Or maybe a battery-powered 303 on very low power, I've heard that screws with the sound in an interesting way, though I've never tried it.
I wander if they wanted it to sound like that or if it was an accident? There's other wierd shit in there, like the reverb on the claves. Then it goes into that next track and straight away you're going 'yeah, that's what a 303 should sound like'.
Track down scrappy and ask him maybe?
Here's the discogs page for Zap:
http://www.discogs.com/label/Zap+Records
I don't have either of the records :-(
It sounds exactly like a 101 or 202 to me.
The 303 filter doesn't whistle like that and you can't do a squidgy slow attack on a 303. Absolutely no way.
I guess it could be a totally different synth like an SH1 or SH09 or Yamaha CS10 or something but that wouldn't really fit with the sequencing and what I know about those Chicago guys' stuff.
Maybe I'll try and make that sound on my MC202 for you
http://www.discogs.com/label/Zap+Records
I don't have either of the records :-(
It sounds exactly like a 101 or 202 to me.
The 303 filter doesn't whistle like that and you can't do a squidgy slow attack on a 303. Absolutely no way.
I guess it could be a totally different synth like an SH1 or SH09 or Yamaha CS10 or something but that wouldn't really fit with the sequencing and what I know about those Chicago guys' stuff.
Maybe I'll try and make that sound on my MC202 for you
Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
Hmm... I'm skeptical, but I don't want to derail a great thread (anymore than I have already).
Back to the freestyle!
OK well I just emailed them so let's see if they reply.....
I did a bit of research and it turns out that Scrappy & The Box Boys is not a black Chicago house type of guy but a pair of Chicago art-scene types who jumped aboard the acid craze and made a few jams before going back to industrial music etc.
So it'll probably turn out they had 4 rooms full of Roland System 700 modules or something to make that sound.....
I did a bit of research and it turns out that Scrappy & The Box Boys is not a black Chicago house type of guy but a pair of Chicago art-scene types who jumped aboard the acid craze and made a few jams before going back to industrial music etc.
So it'll probably turn out they had 4 rooms full of Roland System 700 modules or something to make that sound.....
Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
It's Steve Albini! (Mum's the word, Steve...)
chronic skim reader - was to busy wheeling that section of the mix to read properly.
He sure is mixing his arse off - I love the way alot of the stutters/edits in this era sound, tape splice funk or a product of half a meg memory samplers - either way its awesome.
Thanks Ed for all the track IDs!!! badman. I for one dont mind the synth talk at all
Charlie George
Member
A few points
With regards to the latin feel in some of the Detroit stuff particularly Derrick May's stuff. I think it's no deeper than the fact it just works off variations of the classic latin clave rhythm in the same way that some Kraftwerk stuff did and loads of the electro that followed did as well. So, it is latinesque but not freestyle.
Edward's right - at the time there was no hard and fast divide between house and freestyle. Often it was exactly the same people and labels making the records. Little Louie Vega was first known as a freestyle producer, Todd Terry's first production was a latin record by a group called Giggle's (?) (Oranges & Lemons was later his latin alter ego). Similar situation with Clevilles & Cole. Smokin Records would alternate freestyle and house mixes. Huge records like Sandee's Notice Me and Patti Day's Right Before My Eyes were very much latin/house hybrids.
In Chicago there were some freestyle informed things Raplhi Rosario's superb Rendition EP is an obvious example that springs to mind.
Hate to point this out but you've wrongly ID'd the most obvious track on that mix. At 24.00 it's actually Royal House's Can You Party - possibly the biggest record of that year - and is not Hardhouse (or Todd Terry's) Check This Out. The Hard House track was a thing on Easy St. that sampled Serious Intention (another Easy Street record) and came out later.
Good to see the UK's Wee Papa Girl Rapper's in there at 35.00 with the Kevin Saunderson acid remix of Heat it Up which was a real Shoom tune.
Saunderson had some hook up with Jive/Zomba (the girl's label) so was over here (UK) working that summer in Battery studios Willesden: just like Adonis and Mr Lee, as well. That's how that mix happened no doubt. Teddy Riley was also at Battery recording Kool Moe Dee at that time and he did the girl's next single which was a rap version of George Michael's Faith. It was all happening in Willesden High Street that summer.
With regards to the latin feel in some of the Detroit stuff particularly Derrick May's stuff. I think it's no deeper than the fact it just works off variations of the classic latin clave rhythm in the same way that some Kraftwerk stuff did and loads of the electro that followed did as well. So, it is latinesque but not freestyle.
Edward's right - at the time there was no hard and fast divide between house and freestyle. Often it was exactly the same people and labels making the records. Little Louie Vega was first known as a freestyle producer, Todd Terry's first production was a latin record by a group called Giggle's (?) (Oranges & Lemons was later his latin alter ego). Similar situation with Clevilles & Cole. Smokin Records would alternate freestyle and house mixes. Huge records like Sandee's Notice Me and Patti Day's Right Before My Eyes were very much latin/house hybrids.
In Chicago there were some freestyle informed things Raplhi Rosario's superb Rendition EP is an obvious example that springs to mind.
Hate to point this out but you've wrongly ID'd the most obvious track on that mix. At 24.00 it's actually Royal House's Can You Party - possibly the biggest record of that year - and is not Hardhouse (or Todd Terry's) Check This Out. The Hard House track was a thing on Easy St. that sampled Serious Intention (another Easy Street record) and came out later.
Good to see the UK's Wee Papa Girl Rapper's in there at 35.00 with the Kevin Saunderson acid remix of Heat it Up which was a real Shoom tune.
Saunderson had some hook up with Jive/Zomba (the girl's label) so was over here (UK) working that summer in Battery studios Willesden: just like Adonis and Mr Lee, as well. That's how that mix happened no doubt. Teddy Riley was also at Battery recording Kool Moe Dee at that time and he did the girl's next single which was a rap version of George Michael's Faith. It was all happening in Willesden High Street that summer.
Charlie George
Member
Ed,
I don't quite think my little typo on Orange (and) Lemon (s) actually quite equates with your mis IDing one of the biggest house records of all time.
Also, I don't understand your point with regards to Little Louie Vega. Are you saying that he wasn't known as a freestyle producer? Seemed like a relatively uncontroversial statemnet to me.
I don't quite think my little typo on Orange (and) Lemon (s) actually quite equates with your mis IDing one of the biggest house records of all time.
Also, I don't understand your point with regards to Little Louie Vega. Are you saying that he wasn't known as a freestyle producer? Seemed like a relatively uncontroversial statemnet to me.
Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
I did a little mix today inspired by this thread, which contains some of the tracks discussed so far. You can find in the events forum...
http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=6360
I was aiming for that hotmix, fast-edit style that Bad Boy Bill and the other old Chicago radio DJs mixed with - and I got 23 tracks into an hour, so I must have done OK!
It's hard work mixing that fast though, believe..
http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=6360
I was aiming for that hotmix, fast-edit style that Bad Boy Bill and the other old Chicago radio DJs mixed with - and I got 23 tracks into an hour, so I must have done OK!
It's hard work mixing that fast though, believe..