You

[Mr. Tea]

Well that's a different question entirely. Sometimes there's the threat of a tangible consequence that will (or could) happen, eg. "I want a new car but I won't buy one because then I'd have no money to pay the mortgage and I'd be homeless", or fear of disapproval of some kind either from the general public or specifc people you know, or becaise it's illegal and you fear the legal consequences. Or because of fear of metaphysical/spiritual consequences for your immortal soul (something I am fortunately not saddled with).

So loads of reasons, really.

 

[nomadologist]

yup

 

[PeteUM]

there are all sorts of reasons why someone might try to jump ahead in line. you can do that in a such a way that you'db e considered a "dick" or you can do it in other ways.

i guess it's hard to say. in new york it's considered normal to stand up for your "right" to whatever. i would never jump a line, and i've never really seen anyone do it, because here they would tear you a new asshole if you did.

the boundaries surrounding what's "appropriate" are pretty vigilantly policed in places where there's extremely limited space and time

the thing that pisses me off most are people who are inefficient walkers, who get in other peoples' way because they're not paying attention, etc.

but all of this just sounds like griping over pet peeves...

It cannot be denied that inefficient walkers are the scum of the earth.

 

[barry_abs]

I interpret any sign of my feeling hate solely as an invitation to self-scrutinising.

well that's something i've learnt too - what i'm trying to do now is accept..

an example: i can't stand self-centred, manipulative and controlling behaviour.. never have liked it - got it all the time off my brothers.. now, it has risen again in my relationship at home.. self-scrutinising tells me that i just like to do what i like, without being hassled.. which probably equates to just liking to be in control - so i'm the same, to an extent.. doesn't stop the behaviour annoying me!

must accept.. live and let live as Norma said..

 

[barry_abs]

It cannot be denied that inefficient walkers are the scum of the earth.

don't get me started..

 

[Mr. Tea]

. self-scrutinising tells me that i just like to do what i like, without being hassled.. which probably equates to just liking to be in control - so i'm the same, to an extent.. doesn't stop the behaviour annoying me!

But wanting to be in control of your own life is very different from wanting to control other people, isn't it?

 

[nomadologist]

a lot of control freaks dont stop at their own lives, they often try to control *everything* around them

 

[ripley]

But wanting to be in control of your own life is very different from wanting to control other people, isn't it?

only if your life does not in any way intersect with the actions of other people, surely

 

[Mr. Tea]

I'm talking about intentionally imposing your will on other people, which goes far beyond merely having an effect on them. Of course my actions have an effect on, for instance, my girlfriend (and vice versa) because we're in a relationship; that doesn't equate to wanting to dominate every aspect of her life.

 

[nomadologist]

well that's something i've learnt too - what i'm trying to do now is accept..

an example: i can't stand self-centred, manipulative and controlling behaviour.. never have liked it - got it all the time off my brothers.. now, it has risen again in my relationship at home.. self-scrutinising tells me that i just like to do what i like, without being hassled.. which probably equates to just liking to be in control - so i'm the same, to an extent.. doesn't stop the behaviour annoying me!

must accept.. live and let live as Norma said..

well, the thing is, manipulative ir passive-aggressive behavior is also dysfunctional...i know from personal experience how many passive-aggressive people try to manipulate circumstances so they can have take "moral high ground" during any argument or disagreement, but they're just as wrong as someone who acts out in anger.

personally, i think passive-aggressive types are the other scourge on humanity

 

[Gavin]

personally, i think passive-aggressive types are the other scourge on humanity

I think a lot about passive aggressive behavior... it seems like a very prevalent mode of emotional existence today. I think it might have something to do with "tolerance" education and managerial prerogatives infiltrating the general culture, where offending someone else is the ultimate sin and direct confrontation is avoided at all costs. A lot of people I know act this way (at least around me, very unfortunate in academia)... I'd be more comfortable if everyone was just a jerk and then we all laughed about it.

Here's Wikipedia's list of symptoms... describes pretty much everyone I know.

* Ambiguity
* Avoiding responsibility by claiming forgetfulness
* Blaming others
* Chronic lateness and forgetfulness
* Complaining
* Does not express hostility or anger openly
* Fear of authority
* Fear of competition
* Fear of dependency
* Fear of intimacy
* Fosters chaos
* Intentional inefficiency
* Making excuses and lying
* Obstructionism
* Procrastination
* Resentment
* Resists suggestions from others
* Sarcasm
* Sullenness

Maybe a result of emotional/political constipation? The dark obverse to the perpetual "fuck it" attitude? Thoughts? I think it's up there with schizophrenia and nostalgia as part of the postmodern consciousness.

 

[nomadologist]

I think you're right on, and what's even worse is that I find this behavior is taking the place of rational, adult behavior even in the workplace-- I've even been made to feel like a bad person because I REFUSE to be passive-aggressive. If anyone does something that bothers me or will potentially upset my situation in some way, I try to go to them as graciouslly as possible and ask them what's wrong and whether we can resolve the issue. In certain offices where I've worked, people have tried to passive-aggressively punish me for confront them about their passive-aggression in the hopes of doing the best work as efficiently as possible. You would not believe how they'd make any attempt to be upfront and transparent haunt me! And then, of course, they'd try to take the moral high ground and applaud themselves for not being "conflict-oriented"...

Can't stand it!

 

[swears]

passive-aggressive (sometimes)

I hate confrontation.

I usually deal with it by blanking someone or walking away, I can't be bothered arguing because most of the time it doesn't seem to do any good. I had a really, really annoying boss that everybody hated and would bicker with and slag off constantly, I just avoided speaking to her as much as possible for about a year. But I'd like to think that I don't do any of this to get sympathy, I will take the blame if I cock up, I just can't be fucked with other people's neurosis. This is the only way I can imagine staying sane in work and with people in general.

 

[nomadologist]

There's nothing better than the look on a passive-aggressive type's face when you blow their game out of the water by saying all those things they're relying on you to be too afraid to bring up. That's wound up being my strategy with them, which is not how I'd prefer to behave, but what choice do they leave?

 

[nomadologist]

I hate confrontation.

I usually deal with it by blanking someone or walking away, I can't be bothered arguing because most of the time it doesn't seem to do any good. I had a really, really annoying boss that everybody hated and would bicker with and slag off constantly, I just avoided speaking to her as much as possible for about a year. But I'd like to think that I don't do any of this to get sympathy, I will take the blame if I cock up, I just can't be fucked with other people's neurosis. This is the only way I can imagine staying sane in work and with people in general.

I understand that point of view, though. Passive-aggression is more about not doing things in such a way that it actively "makes a point" or messes up other peoples' situations

 

[swears]

Being passive-aggressive or openly aggressive are two sides of the same coin. It's hard to imagine one group of people without the other, they need each other.

Ther was another person at work who would slag me off for not arguing with him. "Don't you care about anything? Don't you care about other people's opinions?"
Well, not your idiotic opinions, chum.

 

[nomadologist]

In terms of what's considered "psychologically healthy" behavior, it's considered very unhealthy to repress your negative reactions to the point of not saying *anything* about them. Of course, there are varying degrees of urgency to what needs confronting, but still--it's very unhealthy to never express a negative reaction to others' behaviors.

I wasn't really thinking of matters of opinion, more about situations where there's something more at stake than normal chit chat type

I don't blame you for not talking to your coworkers, who wants to?

 

[Gavin]

It's also bad politically. We're trained to leave each other alone, never offend anyone, and basically never argue, even when we're right because that upsets the boat. We're told everyone's opinion is equally important, even when people have ludicrous opinions that need called out. Any kind of critical assessment, even disagreement, can be dubbed "disrespectful" or some other idiotic term that protects those with fragile egos and incoherent positions from actually THINKING or JUSTIFYING why they think the way they do.

It's the perfect emotional state/ideology for the current capitalist-management style government we have -- question nothing, leave everyone alone, things will keep on keeping on just fine, and keep tamping down any persistent cognitive dissonance that arises.

 

[nomadologist]

Exactly, that's the major issue with the American "left"

 

[nomadologist]

Any kind of critical assessment, even disagreement, can be dubbed "disrespectful" or some other idiotic term that protects those with fragile egos and incoherent positions from actually THINKING or JUSTIFYING why they think the way they do.

I find this argument also pops up aesthetically a lot--if you dare to have strong aesthetic preferences and are willing to discuss them and back them up, people get SO OFFENDED. As if having an opinion means that you automatically think everyone else's is "invalid." God forbid you just enjoy aesthetic debate!