Reynolds on planet-mu

[Martin Dust]

MDMA is a deeply sinister drug precisely because of what it seems to offer, and the gap between that utopian feeling and the actuality of its effect within society as a whole. Within its current context it has no revolutionary potential, because it offers utopia, or the feeling of utopia, in a readily consumable form. It doesn't require any hard work or achievement to bosh a couple of pills does it...?

Surely it's down to what the user does with it tho. Yeah loads of people have just sat around and talked/moaned about the same shit forever, I've always hated that drug groove that people get into and now won't tolerate it now, STFU or do something about it.

 

[straight]

the whole concept of 'inteligent dance music' reeks of such smugness its nauseating. It tends to mean music that noone will ever dance to made by a smug cunt whos never had a good night out. the aphex do at the warehouse the other week was one of the most joyless experiences of my life. Was full of smug spotty sixth formers and 30 year olds who still look like smug sixth formers. the only people in that area who kept any real funk are surgeon and neil landstrumm in that sound futuristic and glitchy without it seeming so studied and at the same time not clear dancefloors. Guys like akufen and matmos came along around the turn of the century and made IDM seem pretty redundant in that they were making smart music for the dancefloor without it being some chopped up arms race.
I think thats why Ive gone back to disco recently, im pretty sure you need a fair bit more intelligence to score something for a 30 piece band than moving blocks on Reason

 

[noel emits]

A lot of what was known as electronica / IDM (yeuch) in the 90s was a kind of research into what could be done with and what were the natural modes of newly widely available techniques and technologies for electronic music. Sometimes it produced good music, sometimes it didn't. The fact is that those techniques and technologies went mainstream some time ago. R&B / Minimal / Dubstep - that's essentially where all that stuff went to and remains now. Some music still totally fetishises and foregrounds those processes, and that's fine of course, but mostly you are hearing the same things just in contexts and packages with a wider appeal and a bit more functionality.

But I think this discussion has moved on to more interesting areas...

 

[noel emits]

I suppose the thing with 'ardkore rave is that musically it was the most anarchic and cavalier of styles. Nothing was excluded and everyone could have a go. So in that sense it could be said to better lend itself ideologically to the utopian revolutionary drive than other strands of dancing music. Of course in reality that's not how it went down, but if you are going to try and ascribe such impulses to scenes then maybe that's where the musical evidence is to be found. I'd say those with real revolution on their minds were operating well below the radar and not doing anything nearly so obvious.

 

[straight]

i think its more to do with people wanting to piss their girlfriends off

 

[noel emits]

As an agent of change beyond the micro-personal ecstacy is of negligible utility without an accompanying political framework / agenda. In itself it requires little commitment and involves little risk. There's nothing much at stake really. For drugs to work on that level they have to challenge all of your assumptions. Yes, E = the Tony Blair of psychedelics.

 

[noel emits]

i think its more to do with people wanting to piss their girlfriends off

What is?

Surely shagging super-models is the best way to do this anyway?

 

[bassnation]

MDMA is a deeply sinister drug precisely because of what it seems to offer, and the gap between that utopian feeling and the actuality of its effect within society as a whole. Within its current context it has no revolutionary potential, because it offers utopia, or the feeling of utopia, in a readily consumable form. It doesn't require any hard work or achievement to bosh a couple of pills does it...?

well, we've had this conversation before and its one of those perception things where we won't persuade each other because both of our experiences with the drug are valid. i've changed as a result of taking it, without a shadow of a doubt, but yeah, the world hasn't. of course boshing some pills doesn't take much effort, but learning from the experience and applying that to multiple areas of your life does.

i used to be such a shy withdrawn person who had a lot of difficulty understanding what other people thought, or felt. i felt alien and isolated in comparision to most of my peers and i am telling you, ecstasy changed all that for me.

however on a macro scale i can accept that it promised much but like 4hero said it was just a dream.

interesting that no drug has ever altered the way music sounds to you - i find this strange cos pretty much every drug i've ever taken, bar coffee, has done that for me. the smiths "london" on acid sounding like a massive aural electric shock? check. shitty handbag house sounding like screwed and chopped on K? check. techno and house sounding huge, dubbed out and intensely exciting on e? check, check, check.

i have to say this has receded over the years in intensity, but then again most things have (with the exception of sex, maybe) - its called being a jaded adult.

man, if what you say is true you've missed out a great deal.

 

[Martin Dust]

the whole concept of 'inteligent dance music' reeks of such smugness its nauseating. It tends to mean music that noone will ever dance to made by a smug cunt whos never had a good night out. the aphex do at the warehouse the other week was one of the most joyless experiences of my life. Was full of smug spotty sixth formers and 30 year olds who still look like smug sixth formers. the only people in that area who kept any real funk are surgeon and neil landstrumm in that sound futuristic and glitchy without it seeming so studied and at the same time not clear dancefloors. Guys like akufen and matmos came along around the turn of the century and made IDM seem pretty redundant in that they were making smart music for the dancefloor without it being some chopped up arms race.
I think thats why Ive gone back to disco recently, im pretty sure you need a fair bit more intelligence to score something for a 30 piece band than moving blocks on Reason

If you feel like that why did you go in the first place?

 

[bassnation]

the whole concept of 'inteligent dance music' reeks of such smugness its nauseating. It tends to mean music that noone will ever dance to made by a smug cunt whos never had a good night out. the aphex do at the warehouse the other week was one of the most joyless experiences of my life. Was full of smug spotty sixth formers and 30 year olds who still look like smug sixth formers. the only people in that area who kept any real funk are surgeon and neil landstrumm in that sound futuristic and glitchy without it seeming so studied and at the same time not clear dancefloors. Guys like akufen and matmos came along around the turn of the century and made IDM seem pretty redundant in that they were making smart music for the dancefloor without it being some chopped up arms race.
I think thats why Ive gone back to disco recently, im pretty sure you need a fair bit more intelligence to score something for a 30 piece band than moving blocks on Reason

akufen and matmos? i'd rather listen to afx druqks for the rest of eternity than a single song from either of those artists. microhouse has to be the dullest music genre ever to grace the dance scene, not that you'd find anyone dancing (or djing) those artists. tediously tasteful wallpaper for people who don't rave.

 

[swears]

Akufen = Todd Edwards rip off

Squarepusher = Lenny De Ice/Dillinja rip off

They had a couple of good tunes, tho. "Do you Know Squarepusher" was fresh at the time.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Squarepusher = Lenny De Ice/Dillinja rip off

They had a couple of good tunes, tho. "Do you Know Squarepusher" was fresh at the time.

He's still great live, bar the (occasional, and usually brief) detour into chinstroking territory. Seeing him on NYE a few years back playing Michael Jackson's Working Day And Night will stay with me forever..

 

[Mr. Tea]

As an agent of change beyond the micro-personal ecstacy is of negligible utility without an accompanying political framework / agenda. In itself it requires little commitment and involves little risk. There's nothing much at stake really. For drugs to work on that level they have to challenge all of your assumptions. Yes, E = the Tony Blair of psychedelics.

NOOOO, don't say that, you'll put me off the stuff for life!

I can't help but link what you're saying here about ecstasy to what you said in another thread about The Simpsons. Isn't it enough to just enjoy something for what it is without setting yourself up for disappointment by expecting to miraculously change the world, at which it'll inevitably fail? And as bassnation says, it's perfectly possible for ecstasy to change your* world. I think it changed me (for the better), too.

*not yours personally, of course, I mean "one's"

 

[noel emits]

Isn't it enough to just enjoy something for what it is without setting yourself up for disappointment by expecting to miraculously change the world, at which it'll inevitably fail?

Of course, you are free to enjoy Tony Blair as much as you like. As long as he's consenting I suppose.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Of course, you are free to enjoy Tony Blair as much as you like. As long as he's consenting I suppose.

Blech. He's been on The Simpsons, hasn't he? Can't recall if he was pilling his tits off at the time, though.

 

[bassnation]

NOOOO, don't say that, you'll put me off the stuff for life!

I can't help but link what you're saying here about ecstasy to what you said in another thread about The Simpsons. Isn't it enough to just enjoy something for what it is without setting yourself up for disappointment by expecting to miraculously change the world, at which it'll inevitably fail? And as bassnation says, it's perfectly possible for ecstasy to change your* world. I think it changed me (for the better), too.

*not yours personally, of course, I mean "one's"

i just find it impossible to be down on a drug that opens up communication, assists with seeing anothers point of view, feeling what they feel. for christs sake, by anyones normal standards its an incredible drug. it might not be fashionable with the space cadets, but who cares.

lots of people will never change the world in their lifetime, but surely the possibility of understanding others might change their world for the better.

 

[Mr. Tea]

i just find it impossible to be down on a drug that opens up communication, assists with seeing anothers point of view, feeling what they feel. for christs sake, by anyones normal standards its an incredible drug. it might not be fashionable with the space cadets, but who cares.

lots of people will never change the world in their lifetime, but surely the possibility of understanding others might change their world for the better.

Quite. I agree with you!

 

[noel emits]

The context in which most people take E these days actually encourages the active resistance of all those 'positive' aspects of the drug. It's frowned upon and the game is to suppress the empathy. In fact I think that was always something of an illusion, what it really offers is a sense of self-acceptance. In a communal setting this gives the impression of PLUR because it's essentially people being ill at ease with themselves that leads to the usual hassles and agro.

But I'm not down on the drug in itself - of course you can find it personally valuable and/or fun but I think we're all agreed here that ultimately it hasn't succeeded in achieving valuable changes in society. Instead what you got was 'Cool Britannia' and your own culture being cynically sold back to you. For a minute that might have felt like something was changing but in reality it was two steps backward.

Edit - In a weird synchronicity that D-REAM song was just used on Radio 4 as I type this. That was an E anthem that was adopted by New Labour for the '97 election. Do you need any more graphic illustration of the values that are really encouraged the Xperience?

 

[Mr. Tea]

Millions of people in this country alone damage their livers, hearts, brains etc. with alcohol; many get into fights (sometimes fatal), some idiots drive while pissed, others fuck around irresponsibly which results in STD transmission and unwanted pregnancies. None of which stops plenty of other people, including me, enjoying booze for the most part sensibly and responsibly. (Sorry if this sounds self-congratulatory, I'm just making a point.) So I don't think the choice of song used by Labour as their 1997 election theme tune ought to put anyone off using ecstasy 'properly'. You see what I'm saying?

In musical terms, I suppose it would be a bit like deciding not to like Black Sabbath and Motorhead because they inspired a genre that eventually gave rise to nu-metal...

 

[continuum]

what it really offers is a sense of self-acceptance. In a communal setting this gives the impression of PLUR because it's essentially people being ill at ease with themselves that leads to the usual hassles and agro.

hit nail on head