crackerjack
Well-known member
I agree (kinda). No Ready To Die, no Mase, no Puff Daddy records, no Jnr Mafia, no Lil Kim, no Foxy, no Firm; Jay-Z and maybe Nas's track records would've contained far fewer cheesers.
Still a great, great album tho.
Dart's Top 50 G.O.A.T. Emcees List (As Of February 2008)
- Thread starter Poisonous Dart
- Start date
I agree (kinda). No Ready To Die, no Mase, no Puff Daddy records, no Jnr Mafia, no Lil Kim, no Foxy, no Firm; Jay-Z and maybe Nas's track records would've contained far fewer cheesers.
Still a great, great album tho.
crackerjack
Well-known member
as an out of leftfield inclusion i would have had scaramanga shallah in there, unlikely as i know it is. he only had five minutes in the sun- but he shone
Seven Eyes Seven Horns??? Hell yeah.
Poisonous Dart
Lone Swordsman
I hear ya.
Busy Bee bottomed out around #60...Shit, Spoonie Gee was way down at #73! Big Boi was at a tie for #53 with Jean Grae...if he makes another great solo album then he'll definitely be in the Top 50 no problem.
I discovered that I really need to make a completely separate list for female emcees due to the rampant ghostwriting that occured for female emcees Roxanne Shante often ended up spitting rhymes written by Big Daddy Kane, Kool G Rap or Craig G rather than writing her own material. Latifah also benefitted from verses crafted by Latee, Apache or Treach oftentimes. Lyte wrote the overwhelming majority of her own verses and Salt N' Pepa didn't begin writing their own shit until "Black's Magic". Bahamadia was down around #61 in my list and I wish I could've snuck Lin Que in there as well.
Rammellzee was down at #67 on my final list even though he's one of my all time faves.
One.
Busy Bee bottomed out around #60...Shit, Spoonie Gee was way down at #73! Big Boi was at a tie for #53 with Jean Grae...if he makes another great solo album then he'll definitely be in the Top 50 no problem.
I discovered that I really need to make a completely separate list for female emcees due to the rampant ghostwriting that occured for female emcees Roxanne Shante often ended up spitting rhymes written by Big Daddy Kane, Kool G Rap or Craig G rather than writing her own material. Latifah also benefitted from verses crafted by Latee, Apache or Treach oftentimes. Lyte wrote the overwhelming majority of her own verses and Salt N' Pepa didn't begin writing their own shit until "Black's Magic". Bahamadia was down around #61 in my list and I wish I could've snuck Lin Que in there as well.
Rammellzee was down at #67 on my final list even though he's one of my all time faves.
One.
Poisonous Dart
Lone Swordsman
Scara was out at #55.
Scaramanga would've made the list had he just released another album or two between 2005 and now. He hasn't retired either...Where's homie at? His Myspace is just there.
One.
verdicts being the warp and woof of the aesthetic experience
the point is it set a formula which seemed ultimately divisive and damaging to nyc hip hop. it was undeniably a watershed of sorts- but i didn't think it a good one. though like i said i like a couple of the tunes!
"who's in your top ten? is it emcee shan, is it emcee ren?" (/nas) i see poor shan didn't make the cut. del the funkee homosapien?
as an out of leftfield inclusion i would have had scaramanga shallah in there, unlikely as i know it is. he only had five minutes in the sun- but he shone
Scaramanga would've made the list had he just released another album or two between 2005 and now. He hasn't retired either...Where's homie at? His Myspace is just there.
One.
heroesandvillains
Lono ̴
Vast Aire on The Cold Vein is some of the tightest lyrical work ever...but he was never even close after that album
Poisonous Dart
Lone Swordsman
Styleistically....
Vast Aire was a beast on his solo LP "Look Ma No Hands" and on his mixtapes. Those side projects with Keith Masters and the Atoms Family were dope as hell but Vast is so out there that he didn't fit into the Top 50 emcees all time list and I had him down around the 70's. I wish I could've snuck Special Ed in there.
One.
Vast Aire was a beast on his solo LP "Look Ma No Hands" and on his mixtapes. Those side projects with Keith Masters and the Atoms Family were dope as hell but Vast is so out there that he didn't fit into the Top 50 emcees all time list and I had him down around the 70's. I wish I could've snuck Special Ed in there.
One.
crackerjack
Well-known member
So is this list ongoing? Do you have a chart where you move them up and down every time they make an album, like the football tables they'd give out in Shoot at the start of every season?
Poisonous Dart
Lone Swordsman
Kinda sorta
Only in my mind. This is one of the things that us Hip Hop bloggers have that is ongoing. Kurtis Blow is WAY DOWN on the list now thanks to cats like Jay Electronica, Lupe Fiasco, Elzhi, Vakill, etc.
Only in my mind. This is one of the things that us Hip Hop bloggers have that is ongoing. Kurtis Blow is WAY DOWN on the list now thanks to cats like Jay Electronica, Lupe Fiasco, Elzhi, Vakill, etc.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Big L only at 31....damn. Surely Top Ten without question.
And Ice Cube at 41? Do my eyes deceive me?
Probably not. Still, Slick Rick at no 8, so that's pacified me.
And Ice Cube at 41? Do my eyes deceive me?
Probably not. Still, Slick Rick at no 8, so that's pacified me.
crackerjack
Well-known member
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IMHO doing the whole 'big boi is better than dre3000' thing is as corny as people that completely dismiss big boi. big IS important to the outkast group dynamic, hes the one who keeps/kept andre grounded, definitely, but as a solo artist dre is definitely way ahead of big boi, both as a songwriter and producer. speakerboxx had its moments but the love below, despite its flaws, was ten times better. but theyre both a 100 times better working together than apart. shame they havent realised this. as for who is a better rapper, i dont think its clean cut flow-wise (although BB sometimes tries to be too tricksy with his timing and rhythms), id say dre is better textually, hes written a lot of brilliant lyrics over the years.
mistersloane
heavy heavy monster sound
MC Tee was wicked, what happened to him?
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
On their 1985-99 best of, there were two new tracks from the late 90s (can't remember if MC Tee was on them or not...) which, for my money, were pretty fantastic.
Maybe my memory is deceiving me...
Poisonous Dart
Lone Swordsman
Unfortunately...
A second solo album from Big L that wasn't posthumous and cobbled together by label A&R's and remixed by DJ's would've helped his position a lot more.
Ice Cube has impaired his position not putting the mic down and releasing terrible albums (Lethal Injection, War And Peace, Laugh Now, Cry Later) with horrible verses attached.
Slick Rick never fell off. He STILL has it. Too bad Def Jam sucks or they'd have released his last album back in 2005/6.
One.
A second solo album from Big L that wasn't posthumous and cobbled together by label A&R's and remixed by DJ's would've helped his position a lot more.
Ice Cube has impaired his position not putting the mic down and releasing terrible albums (Lethal Injection, War And Peace, Laugh Now, Cry Later) with horrible verses attached.
Slick Rick never fell off. He STILL has it. Too bad Def Jam sucks or they'd have released his last album back in 2005/6.
One.
STN
sou'wester
crackerjack
Well-known member
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Surely those Stretch & Bobbito freestyles with Big L destroying a young Jay-Z must count for something..? Flamboyant, Ebonics and Platinum Plus are all classics off that seocnd album too...
Poisonous Dart
Lone Swordsman
Yep.
This isn't a list of the most skilled emcees of all times or he'd have been MUCH higher on the list. It's the GREATEST of all times. That means that there are several more factors to include. Look at Notorious B.I.G.'s career that only lasted two albums (the second posthumous as well) and parallel that to L's. Big L's first album was slept on and he hit the underground circuit and killed it from 1995-1998. He put out a bunch of great 12's and freestyles but he was still underground.
Biggie Smalls was underground back in 1991-1993 and he exploded on the scene on the "Who's The Man" OST, Heavy D's "Blue Funk", and the remix to Super Cat's "Dolly My Baby". He was above ground and moving units from then on while still remaining underground simultaneously. Biggie's influence and impact on the game was huge despite the fact that I actually preferred Big L's material most of the time.
One.
This isn't a list of the most skilled emcees of all times or he'd have been MUCH higher on the list. It's the GREATEST of all times. That means that there are several more factors to include. Look at Notorious B.I.G.'s career that only lasted two albums (the second posthumous as well) and parallel that to L's. Big L's first album was slept on and he hit the underground circuit and killed it from 1995-1998. He put out a bunch of great 12's and freestyles but he was still underground.
Biggie Smalls was underground back in 1991-1993 and he exploded on the scene on the "Who's The Man" OST, Heavy D's "Blue Funk", and the remix to Super Cat's "Dolly My Baby". He was above ground and moving units from then on while still remaining underground simultaneously. Biggie's influence and impact on the game was huge despite the fact that I actually preferred Big L's material most of the time.
One.
Amen...was listening to his verse on Ghostface's "The Sun" over the weekend and it reminded me of just how amazing he still is. Is there bootleg copies of his unreleased album floating around anywhere? I'd love to hear something more recent from him.
Benny Bunter
Well-known member
I can't pretend to comment with too much knowledge of all the mcs in your list, but I was really glad to see Ghostface and Kool Keith so high up.
I thought I was totally fed up all these 'best ever..' lists, but when its provoking interesting discussion like this one has then I'm all for 'em
I thought I was totally fed up all these 'best ever..' lists, but when its provoking interesting discussion like this one has then I'm all for 'em