fast food psychogeography

sufi

sufi

lala
my mate ludwig has proposed an over-arching theory of curry dispersal through london in concentric rings:
  • inner circle - expensive (generally inauthentic) curry of variable quality
  • zone 2-3 (approx) - bog-standard takeaways, shit quality
  • outer rings - this is where the proper curry takes place, hounslow, upton park etc... mmm
questions for the massive, as follows:
- it's true tho innit?
- obviously this reflects the users of the curry, the more suburban areas have actual curry producing and consuming communities, so the curry you get in southall or forest gate is the real business, not english-type spicy gravy mook; none of yer bollix jalfrezi, masalla, korma nonsense, we're talking about lamb curry and chicken curry (& no sign of papadam neither!)
- does this theory stand for other type of fast food?
- is chicken the exception (rank in every corner)?
- does this theory stand for other cities?

I did the better part of the rail replacement bus service from Barking to Tottenham recently, it was a long journey and we passed the time by spotting kebabishs - can you beleive that we counted 9 before we got to Walthamstow - for me that is conclusive proof.....

(there is also the brixton roti question to consider... why for so many years was there no roti amongst the myriad caribbean food shops??? possibly due to Brikky being a Jamaican area, not Trinidaian, but there are plenty roti in notting hill/ ladbroke grove iirc & i had a nice one up stoke newy the other day... now brixton is blessed with the roti caravan, which proudly and graphically represents guyana... is that a clue?)
 
V

viktorvaughn

Well-known member
Hmm some probs...

Drummond St behind Euston is a proper S. Indian enclave and the food there very authentic and nice. Zone1.

Tayyabs in Whitechapel is very nice and authentic also. Zone 2 or 3.

Rasa in Stoke Newington and various central spots too inc Charlotte St.

Jai Krisha on Stroud Green Road again is the absolute business, cheap and authentic. Zone 2 or 3.

I reckon you just gotta know the decent spots?
 
hucks

hucks

Your Message Here
Interesting idea

Almost all of London's Bangladeshis live in Tower Hamlets and Newham, though, which are Inner London, if not necessarily zones 3 and below, so one would expect to find good Bangladeshi cuisine there, rather than the suburbs. Actually, that's my experience, so carry on...
 
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S

simon silverdollar

Guest
also Tooting's zone 3 innit?

Elephant and castle, though, must be the big counter-example to the 'central london = shit food' thesis.
 
Slothrop

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
What ViktorVaughan said - plenty of really amazing places in zones 2 and 3. So I'm not entirely convinced. Generalizing about London seems a bit quixotic tbh.

Inner circle probably has 'modern indian' type michelin starred places as well as cheap nasty takeaways, although I guess that's not really part of the takeaway equation.

And again, talking about 'authenticity' in food rather than just quality and variety kind of sets my nerves jangling - it seems to run the risk of developing an exotic Other to get excited about. It's not proper curry unless it's made by proper 'ethnics' who have acceptably shit taste in decor and give you a proper urban-tourist 'experience' albeit in a slightly more postmodern and aware way than plastic palm trees and nondescript sitar music...
 
Slothrop

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
Not averse to the conversation, btw, just get annoyed by 'authenticity' as an arbitrary measuring post.

Brick Lane seems to be to curry as Oxford Street is to shopping - there's lots of it there and it does well because it's famous for it but there's nothing particularly good or inspiring afaik.

I'd be interested to know the social history of how it got that way - presumably the BL curry industry grew up to serve a local immigrant community but got so famous for it that it turned into a tourist trap and places stopped having to make the effort to differentiate themselves from their neighbours to attract regular customers who know what's what?
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
Slothrop said:
Not averse to the conversation, btw, just get annoyed by 'authenticity' as an arbitrary measuring post.

Brick Lane seems to be to curry as Oxford Street is to shopping - there's lots of it there and it does well because it's famous for it but there's nothing particularly good or inspiring afaik.

I'd be interested to know the social history of how it got that way - presumably the BL curry industry grew up to serve a local immigrant community but got so famous for it that it turned into a tourist trap and places stopped having to make the effort to differentiate themselves from their neighbours to attract regular customers who know what's what?
Click to expand...

This is now the accepted wisdom re Brick Lane, wit the result that most in-the-know (incl me) go to Tayyab or somewhere instead. Is it suffering from inverted snobbery? I've had mixed experiences there. Problem is, I can never remember the names of the ones (or one) tat I really like. Likewise Vietnamese places around Kingsland Rd (tho I can say for sure the one in Old St is the bollocks).
 
B

bassnation

the abyss
Slothrop said:
Not averse to the conversation, btw, just get annoyed by 'authenticity' as an arbitrary measuring post.

Brick Lane seems to be to curry as Oxford Street is to shopping - there's lots of it there and it does well because it's famous for it but there's nothing particularly good or inspiring afaik.
Click to expand...

no there are one or two good places there but i'll be damned if i can remember the name. wicked fish curries as i seem to recall. but chinese is more my thing, so what would i know.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
sufi said:
well yeh & how does brick lane fit the picture?
Click to expand...

There are so many restaurants on that street there's bound to be some spectrum of quality. Obviously a lot of them aren't very good but I've been to a couple that are a bit more up-market (by which I mean 'better' as well as just 'more expensive'). Like a proper restaurant that happens to do Indo/Bandgla cuisine, as opposed to just another grotty curry-house. I remember one I went to where the menu was actually divided into two separate parts: one that was a fairly standard Anglo-Indian curry menu (yer tikka massala, balti, dhansak, yadda yadda) and the other had all these specifically Bengali specialities - I chose something from the latter that was flavoured with pomegranate and was fucking lush.

There's also a sort of 'greasy spoon' place on the corner of Chicksand St and the Lane, which is cheap and open late and actually really cool. You can take out or eat in, in a room somewhat reminiscent of a school canteen, except for the old posters of Pakistani wrestlers on the walls.

As far as 'authenticity' is concerned, I think it's often overrated. I mean, it's something worth considering if you're actually in India or Bangladesh (or anywhere else, of course) and want to sample a real flavour of the place - but curries have been such a staple of English food for so long now that you can almost talk about an 'authentic English curry', I think. :) As long as it tastes good and doesn't cost an arm and a leg, who cares really?
 
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Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
There's all that great Turkish food in Harringay/Tottenham, and that's inner-to-middle Zone 3. Some good Nigerian takeaway to be had in Peckham (Zone 2).
 
S

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
Slothrop said:
I'd be interested to know the social history of how it got that way - presumably the BL curry industry grew up to serve a local immigrant community but got so famous for it that it turned into a tourist trap and places stopped having to make the effort to differentiate themselves from their neighbours to attract regular customers who know what's what?
Click to expand...

There is a wealth of books on this subject - in fact, you can find a great deal of the books about the transformation of the Brick Lane neighbourhood by doing a search on Amazon.com. I haven't read any of these though, so I can't recommend any in particular.
 
sufi

sufi

lala
Sick Boy said:
There is a wealth of books on this subject - in fact, you can find a great deal of the books about the transformation of the Brick Lane neighbourhood by doing a search on Amazon.com. I haven't read any of these though, so I can't recommend any in particular.
Click to expand...
what is the story of kebabish?
is that psychogeographical?
 
D

DannyL

Wild Horses
sufi said:
my mate ludwig has proposed an over-arching theory of curry dispersal through london in concentric rings:
  • inner circle - expensive (generally inauthentic) curry of variable quality
  • zone 2-3 (approx) - bog-standard takeaways, shit quality
  • outer rings - this is where the proper curry takes place, hounslow, upton park etc... mmm
questions for the massive, as follows:
- it's true tho innit?
- obviously this reflects the users of the curry, the more suburban areas have actual curry producing and consuming communities, so the curry you get in southall or forest gate is the real business, not english-type spicy gravy mook; none of yer bollix jalfrezi, masalla, korma nonsense, we're talking about lamb curry and chicken curry (& no sign of papadam neither!)
- does this theory stand for other type of fast food?
- is chicken the exception (rank in every corner)?
- does this theory stand for other cities?

I did the better part of the rail replacement bus service from Barking to Tottenham recently, it was a long journey and we passed the time by spotting kebabishs - can you beleive that we counted 9 before we got to Walthamstow - for me that is conclusive proof.....

(there is also the brixton roti question to consider... why for so many years was there no roti amongst the myriad caribbean food shops??? possibly due to Brikky being a Jamaican area, not Trinidaian, but there are plenty roti in notting hill/ ladbroke grove iirc & i had a nice one up stoke newy the other day... now brixton is blessed with the roti caravan, which proudly and graphically represents guyana... is that a clue?)
Click to expand...

My mates Dad once counted all the fried chicken shops in Barking - I think it was 33.

BTW Zone 2 = Brick Lane and I don't think *all* the curry there is inauthentic. And I've had some shit curries out in Zone 4 as well.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
what on earth makes you think you don't get poppodoms in forest gate/east ham?
course you bloody do! they'd be rioting on the streets otherwise.
my parents met at ronaks on romford rd, forest gate, so i owe their vegetairan food my life.... they serve poppadoms, so do all the better places on green st.
FACT! and you'll prbably see bejamin zephaniah eating his curry and poppodoms there too.
as a bonus.
 
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