Iranian democracy

[vimothy]

http://niacblog.wordpress.com/

 

[josef k.]

Many pictures here:

http://picfog.com/search/iranelection

 

[vimothy]

About three hours ago I was interviewing people on the street in downtown Tehran with my translator, not far from the Ministry of Interior building.

There were some riot police about 100 meters away at the other end of the street. A couple people spoke to the camera – one young woman was saying that “The riot police are beating people like animals. The situation here is very bad; we need the UN to come and help with a recount of the votes!”

At about that time a plain-clothes security guy started grabbing my arm, and together with several uniformed police they dragged me and my translator off to the Ministry of Interior building.

I fared much better than my translator, whom they punched and kicked in the groin. They ripped off his ID and snatched away both our cameras. A passing police officer sprayed my translator in the face with pepper spray, although he was already being marched along the pavement by three policemen.

Unfortunately my camera was still recording and the battery was dislodged in the hubbub, destroying the video file of the interview.

As we reached the Ministry of Interior building they separated us and dragged my translator by his arms across the floor and down a flight of stairs; he eventually regained his footing on the second two flights of stairs leading downward to the holding cell, where about twenty people who had already been grabbed off the streets were kneeling on the floor in the darkened room with their hands tied behind their backs.

All during this process my translator was being kicked and sworn at. The police told him how they “would put their dicks in his ass” and how “your mother/sister is a whore” and so on. At one point he was beaten with a belt buckle. At another moment, they beat him with a police truncheon across his back, leaving a nasty welt.

My translator kept on insisting that he was an officially authorized translator working with an American journalist—which is perfectly true.

At this time I was above ground, in the entrance to the ministry, yelling over and over at the police to “Bring me my translator!” It was clear that they didn’t intend to beat me—although they may have wanted to—because I was a foreigner.

After a few minutes they relented and sent someone off to retrieve my translator from their holding cell, three floors down in the Ministry of Interior building. They came into the holding cell and shouted “Where is the translator?!” and then, when he identified himself, they beat him again for “not telling them he was a translator.”

An English-speaking riot policeman tried to sweet-talk me, saying that in a riot situation anything can happen. I might have taken him more seriously had a riot actually been taking place when we were arrested. He also asked my translator to convince me not to report what had happened.

Eyewitnesses are reporting that fully-credentialed foreign journalists are similarly being detained all over Tehran today. The deputy head of the Ministry of Guidance just told me on the phone that other journalists have also been beaten, and that the official permissions no longer work. Also, foreign journalist visas are not being extended, so all of those people who were allowed in to cover the elections are now being forced out in the messy aftermath.

http://www.takepart.com/blog/2009/06/15/inside-tehran-an-eye-witness-account-from-james-longley/

 

[vimothy]

http://twitter.com/#search?q=@StopAhmadi

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Welcome to asymmetric warfare you theo-fascist fucks!

yeah you sure showed them Vimothy.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I just mean, let's be realistic here.

students & kids & whoever else getting knocked around by the Basij & whoever else isn't "asymmetric warfare".

I also find the vague talk of a U.S. military intervention to be highly dubious. where's the calls for invasion or even bombing? nowhere in mainstream debate so far as I can see. logistical questions aside. the possibility of the Israelis going for a rogue (or semi-rogue, unofficially U.S. endorsed) surgical strike of some kind is higher but still, I think, very unlikely.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

How secure really is the Iranian government's power base? How tough really are they?

is it a question of toughness? I don't think so. anyway they seem plenty tough to me.

as to how secure their power base is, well I dunno really but they have their own militia, their military branch, their own secret police, right? as well as the support of, presumably, at least a sizable minority of Iranians (even assuming the elections were indeed rigged).

Globalisation is fundamentally altering the power of the state. Every fule kno this. And sometimes, it is a good thing.

so let me get this straight. you're saying that this is one of those cases - of globalization fundamentally altering the power of the Iranian state - & that furthermore it is altering it in a good way?

sorry to go in on you but perhaps you'd care to expand on this? or clarify it?

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

one last - informal poll while out & about today, mostly of people at school & at the gym.

13 people asked. 7 knew there had been elections in Iran. 2 or 3 knew that a bunch of really serious business had kicked off tho not how serious.

that is, I'd guess, a higher % than at-large America, given that I live in a big city & most of the people I asked were college students.

also one dude thought we (the U.S.) had already invaded Iran.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I also find the vague talk of a U.S. military intervention to be highly dubious. where's the calls for invasion or even bombing? nowhere in mainstream debate so far as I can see. logistical questions aside. the possibility of the Israelis going for a rogue (or semi-rogue, unofficially U.S. endorsed) surgical strike of some kind is higher but still, I think, very unlikely.

Yes, that's certainly what I was thinking, to say nothing of hoping.

one last - informal poll while out & about today, mostly of people at school & at the gym.

13 people asked. 7 knew there had been elections in Iran. 2 or 3 knew that a bunch of really serious business had kicked off tho not how serious.

that is, I'd guess, a higher % than at-large America, given that I live in a big city & most of the people I asked were college students.

also one dude thought we (the U.S.) had already invaded Iran.

Fuck me, really? Is just not being reported much over there? Been all over the news here. Probably the second-biggest story at the moment after something about that frumpy Scottish woman who sings hits from musicals.

 

[vimothy]

Proliferation of digital media is a fundamental fact of modern life. Iran's leadership can't control the flow of information any better than the US government. But please, let's all be literalists about the whole thing. Metaphors = bad.

Although actually, students fighting armed militia is asymmetric warfare, an asymmetric confrontation, at any rate, which is at times shading into asymmetric conflicts.

 

[vimothy]

yeah you sure showed them Vimothy.

No, you're right. Why celebrate the continued flow of information from Iran to the rest of the world?

 

[craner]

I also find the vague talk of a U.S. military intervention to be highly dubious.

Um, I'm afraid that's par for the course around here, but you do learn to ignore it.

There's been about three theads started because of some Seymour Hersh-style prediction of immanent US-carpet bombing of Iran. Some wit always sees fit to re-boot the thread when the predicted date of Armageddon passes. What fun we've had over the years.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Fuck me, really? Are people not watching/reading the news over there, or is just not being reported much? Been all over the news here. Probably the second-biggest story at the moment after something about that frumpy Scottish woman who sings hits from musicals.

The former, I think. It's all over CNN/MSNBC/Fox etc., newspapers, the Internet. here it's probably the second-biggest story after health care reform (Obama gave a big speech to the American Medical Association on that today).

A lot of people don't follow the news - really I can't imagine this is so different from the U.K.

 

[vimothy]

Apparently, Twitter are postponing maintenance...

 

[scottdisco]

Um, I'm afraid that's par for the course around here, but you do learn to ignore it.

There's been about three theads started because of some Seymour Hersh-style prediction of immanent US-carpet bombing of Iran. Some wit always sees fit to re-boot the thread when the predicted date of Armageddon passes. What fun we've had over the years.

yes we keep re-setting the date don't we.

 

[Mr. Tea]

The former, I think. It's all over CNN/MSNBC/Fox etc., newspapers, the Internet. here it's probably the second-biggest story after health care reform (Obama gave a big speech to the American Medical Association on that today).

A lot of people don't follow the news - really I can't imagine this is so different from the U.K.

Oh right - I actually edited my post because I thought it looked like I was just making bad assumptions about the American public.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Proliferation of digital media is a fundamental fact of modern life. Iran's leadership can't control the flow of information any better than the US government. But please, let's all be literalists about the whole thing. Metaphors = bad.

I'm just saying, it's easy to get carried away in the heat of the Internet moment.

also, clearly, the flow of information is crucial & unstoppable. On the other hand it it does not, so far, seem to be doing the Iranians a terrible amount of good. That is, everyone's so up to date on the minute-to-minute happenings but this all translates into what, exactly? & I'm not saying that flow of information for its own sake is w/out merit.

Although actually, students fighting armed militia is asymmetric warfare, an asymmetric confrontation, at any rate, which is at times shading into asymmetric conflicts.

sure, it's an asymmetric conflict of sorts. but clearly your comments were referencing the Iranian govt's support of Hezballah/Hamas/etc, no? just trying to say, it treads perilously close to to romanticizing what's going on. like "a taste of their own medicine!" kind of thing. only it's not really. if that's not what you meant at all, then apologies.

 

[craner]

I think a touch of romance is valid here.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Oh right - I actually edited my post because I thought it looked like I was just making bad assumptions about the American public.

I don't think they're necessarily bad assumptions. bit exaggerated, perhaps - there are a sizable minority of informed people. again, I assume, like Britain. anyway, I do think this has relevance given that U.S. public opinion

let me also add that the CNN etc. coverage has been, unsurprisingly, uniformly terrible. caught a blackly humorous moment w/Joe Lieberman on MSNBC where he referenced the "Iranian people rising up for freedom in 1979" w/o mentioning that it was against a U.S.-backed dictator.

 

[vimothy]

Consider the constraint that democratisation (or digitisation, if you prefer) of mass media imposes on the Iranian regime. And so Iran wants to keep information from leaving the country, and from moving around inside it freely, for obvious reasons. Twitter et al makes it that much harder. That is a good thing.