Iranian democracy

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
thanks Vim that Galrahn piece is really good. tho I could do w/o misleading nonsense terms like "virtual insurgency". also, this:

Generation Y tends to generally be socially liberal, tends to engage in causes that organize in networks, and tend to get engaged in politics even as the majority of Generation Y can barely articulate a political policy or position (including their own).


yeh I also linked this about 15 pages back - not very good really IMO. it reads like it was written during the Cold War. which is unsurprising, as Friedman is an old Cold Warrior. actually, this enduring "how we lost Iran" idea reminds me of nothing so much as the "how we lost China" myth.
 

vimothy

yurp
yeh I also linked this about 15 pages back - not very good really IMO.

I agree. Many of the "AN won, get over it" pieces share a somewhat arrogant perspective. As if it's all explainable, but well-fed liberals here can only understand it from the perspective of other well-fed liberals in Tehran. But not me. I understand it as it really is.

From the comments at Lenin's Tomb:

Surely it's the duty of Marxists to explain social reality in an objective and accurate way; not to fuel false hope amongst people who, yes, don't know as much about the way the world works as we do (i know you will take this comment as evidence of my appalling Stalinistic condescension, but again, i can't help that).
 

josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
Reminds me of:

Tim Robbins: Let me explain to you how this works: you see, the corporations finance Team America, and then Team America goes out... and the corporations sit there in their... in their corporation buildings, and... and, and see, they're all corporation-y... and they make money.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
I agree. Many of the "AN won, get over it" pieces share a somewhat arrogant perspective. As if it's all explainable, but well-fed liberals here can only understand it from the perspective of other well-fed liberals in Tehran. But not me. I understand it as it really is.

Exactly. Packer wrote about this earlier this week (specifically about Boot and Pipes), and how it proved the neo-cons were the new Leninists, which was amusing if nowt else (think I linked upthread....).

Just the use of a term like "iPod liberalism" is proof of irredeemable smugness imo
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
from http://shooresh1917.blogspot.com

6:00
An explosion near the shrine of Khomeini,killing one person and minimum 2 people are injured

also being reported on Iranian state TV. have to say, this just screams "FALSE FLAG!" to me.

on that topic:

from TehranBureau
Very suspicious of reports from state tv about blast at Khomeini Shrine. if it did indeed happen, will obviously be used against protesters
 
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four_five_one

Infinition
I agree. Many of the "AN won, get over it" pieces share a somewhat arrogant perspective. As if it's all explainable, but well-fed liberals here can only understand it from the perspective of other well-fed liberals in Tehran. But not me. I understand it as it really is.

Although, to be fair, Lenin (from Lenin's Tomb) has called them out on this more than once:

"Finally, it was inferred that the workers were socially conservative and had little time for middle class people who wanted more liberal legislation. This picture, while touching on important truths, is also rather patronising in its assumption that the workers only care about bread and butter issues and that they tend toward sullen bigotry when it comes to issues of democracy and womens' rights."

Also:

"Even if the protesters were all middle class, I would want them to win. Truth be told, I would want them to win even more than they bargained for - to win so comprehensively that they gave a shot in the arm to the working class and facilitated their rapid self-organisation outside of the Islamic Labour Council approved unions."

That piece posted on there today by Yoshie is laughable, so was the Milne piece the other day. The assumption (of course) of this sort of reductive analysis is that everyone occupies a determined position on one side or the other of the posited class dichotomy; complexity and ambiguity is not permitted, since every actor will naturally perpetuate a political position - already inscribed anterior to any action - accorded by his class interests. There is no outside...

But there are people incapable of being anything other than simplistic from any position along the political spectrum... it's not particular to Marxists.
 
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padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I wonder if this might horribly backfire... thanks to the power of Twitter, amongst other things...

Insofar as what actually happened doesn't/won't matter as much as what the perception of what happened. Tho this is I think a general truth in re: False Flags - but again, w/Twitter etc. this is all happening much faster. whereas before there has been some lag between the event & the speculation (the Italian "strategy of tension", for example).
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
The symbolism is obvious.

exactly - that is why it is perfect for a False Flag (tho this is what you mean? I'm not sure). the protesters have been wrapping themselves in the symbols of the Revolution/Islamic Republic etc - chanting "Allah-u Akbar", old warhorses like Rafsjani & Mousavi, etc. - it's hard to believe they'd be so stupid as to blow up a statue of Khomeini (caveat: people can be very, very stupid).

it's the perfect emotional, irrational casus belli for the regime.
 
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