UKG vs UKG vs UKG

viktorvaughn

Well-known member
Something that has had me wondering within UKG....

Grime and Dubstep have been debated to death. They are in the papers for various reasons from time to time and plenty of music heads have heard of them.

2-step is stuck in some weird limbo with plenty of die-hard fans but a bit of a static scene with lots of older music getting played out rather than never stuff and a bit of a shortage of nights. (Correct me if i'm wrong, i am stabbing in the dark slightly here).

Canonical 4/4 like Todd Edwards is given props.

But there seems to be loads of bassline 4/4 garage with quite a cheap production aesthetic that it totally ignored by the blogging/forum massive. I live in Sheffield where 'Niche' rules the roost in terms of a hard clubbing, very working-class, banging-bassline speed-garage scene. Niche was actually the name of the club in which the music was played, but has transcended its physical locale to refer to the actual scene and music itself now. Sheffield is the mecca of the place, and the scene is wholly removed from your breaks/techy house student scene. It (and garage in general often) is viewed extremely scornfully (and myopically) by those frequenting such nights, which themselves can be boring as fuck.

But there seems to be a lack of any critical consideration of this music (not that critical appraisal is the be all and end all of course, just an observation).

Sure, it sounds basic and predictable, but no more so than 'Ice Rink', 'Jampie', or 'Cha'. It sounds wicked in a club (probably best hand-in-hand with some recreational drugs to be honest). I don't like it as much as the other garage permeations mentioned, it just seems that new 4/4 garage has gone a bit of the map. Part of this is probably down to the bad reputation Niche has up here for violence and drug-taking. The security was scarily thorough when i went, but there was a few mini fights and lots of people absolutely para on class As (including a 40-odd year old woman).

Any takers?:D
 

MATT MAson

BROADSIDE
I remember Marcus Nasty being a total convert of Niche, telling me that was all he was going to play from now on. That was a while ago though.

The music I've heard does all seem to be pretty mindless regurgitations of speed garage to me, but maybe I just missed the point.
 

viktorvaughn

Well-known member
Reading back my post, it sounds like i think Niche is really excellent!

That's funny about Marcus Nasty, maybe that's why Jammer fell out with him!

It is kinda rubbish in some ways and massively formulaic but its fun to dance to (mind you don't step on anyone's toes though). Tune to look out for is a Niche rmx of that 'Badman fwd Badman pull up' dancehall tune.

I'll up a mix.
 
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sodiumnightlife

Sweet Virginia
I read a wee thing in mixmag a while ago about so called bassline house...is this the same thing you're talking about viktor? Mixmag billed it as a offshoot of speed garage so it sounds similar. Would definitely be interested in hearing a mix, i've lost that mixmag now and can't remember any of the names mentioned.
 

viktorvaughn

Well-known member
I read a wee thing in mixmag a while ago about so called bassline house...is this the same thing you're talking about viktor? Mixmag billed it as a offshoot of speed garage so it sounds similar. Would definitely be interested in hearing a mix, i've lost that mixmag now and can't remember any of the names mentioned.

Yeah bassline house, speed garage and niche are all very closely related. It's often just billed as 'bassline'.
 

borderpolice

Well-known member
Currently there are no clubs in east london that play this kind of music as far as i can tell. the scene dried up completely. Dunno why, but probably to do with the associated violence.

If you know of any night, please let me know.
 

Noah Baby Food

Well-known member
I wrote a big, eloquent post about this and then managed to close my browser window and lost the facking thing. So I'll try to be brief:

Bassline house IS the sound of the young working class North of England. I can't believe more Dissensus folks haven't heard of it. I live in Leeds and the kids call it "Casa's" (because the club that was originally known for playing it here is called Casa Loco...proper functionalist stuff here folks). It's everywhere. No-one writes about it on the internet...though no-one really wrote much about old "'ardkore" when it was actually happening either eh. I agree, a lot of this music is basically cheaply produced speed garage. But if you said that to the kids at the youth centre where I used to work in a very poor (and white) area of East Leeds, they'd ask you "what's garage?".

My mate Rampant runs Northern Line Records. They have Paleface, Flukes and Blackfinger amongst their producers. They're all getting constant bookings. They've just done a tune with Jamakabi. Grime MCs are queuing up to vocal their riddims. They constantly do 1000 straight out the gate of every 12" they put out. Why aren't bloggers talking about this? This is soundtracking a large part of the UK's youth...this stuff is important social history. Go down Leeds market and go to one of the many stalls solely selling bassline CDs, 6 for a fiver. Go to the DJ superstore on Vicar Lane and check the hundreds of white labels. This isn't just Leeds either.

Loads of these tunes use acapellas of current r'n'b/hip hop/cheesy dance tunes. There was one a while back of "Show Me Love" by Robin S. All the kids at my old work thought it was a new tune - this is real year-Zero stuff.

This music is WAY more popular than grime. I'm not saying BETTER, but more popular. Leeds-wise, grime was pretty big in Chapeltown (mainly black area of Leeds) a couple of years back. It's kinda died off unfortunately, and a lot of the audience and creators are now on bassline.

Honestly, do no "Dissensians" ever go down the market (I don't mean Borough), or actually talk to any working-class young people?
 

tate

Brown Sugar
bassline house

For what it's worth, there have been a few threads on dissensus over the years addressing bassline house. Here is one from last year, and eight posts into it, I link to two older threads with further discussion (one of which is from early '05 when Jess Harvell still posted here, those were the days!):

http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=4336
 

nomos

Administrator
Why aren't bloggers talking about this?

I have no idea. I've been wanting to learn more for a while but there's not much information (though I think we had a good thread in 2005). Is there a bassline forum? I've picked up just a bit. Some of the Northern Line stuff is quite good. My friend Matt plays a little of that around here. It goes well with the 4x4 garage from a few years ago a nd there's a bit of crossover with the likes of Dexplicit and More2daFloor if I'm not mistaken.

EDit: Yeah, there we go. Thanks tate. I miss Jess. He always had something thoughtful to say.
 

viktorvaughn

Well-known member
I wrote a big, eloquent post about this and then managed to close my browser window and lost the facking thing. So I'll try to be brief:

Bassline house IS the sound of the young working class North of England. I can't believe more Dissensus folks haven't heard of it. I live in Leeds and the kids call it "Casa's" (because the club that was originally known for playing it here is called Casa Loco...proper functionalist stuff here folks). It's everywhere. No-one writes about it on the internet...though no-one really wrote much about old "'ardkore" when it was actually happening either eh. I agree, a lot of this music is basically cheaply produced speed garage. But if you said that to the kids at the youth centre where I used to work in a very poor (and white) area of East Leeds, they'd ask you "what's garage?".

My mate Rampant runs Northern Line Records. They have Paleface, Flukes and Blackfinger amongst their producers. They're all getting constant bookings. They've just done a tune with Jamakabi. Grime MCs are queuing up to vocal their riddims. They constantly do 1000 straight out the gate of every 12" they put out. Why aren't bloggers talking about this? This is soundtracking a large part of the UK's youth...this stuff is important social history. Go down Leeds market and go to one of the many stalls solely selling bassline CDs, 6 for a fiver. Go to the DJ superstore on Vicar Lane and check the hundreds of white labels. This isn't just Leeds either.

Loads of these tunes use acapellas of current r'n'b/hip hop/cheesy dance tunes. There was one a while back of "Show Me Love" by Robin S. All the kids at my old work thought it was a new tune - this is real year-Zero stuff.

This music is WAY more popular than grime. I'm not saying BETTER, but more popular. Leeds-wise, grime was pretty big in Chapeltown (mainly black area of Leeds) a couple of years back. It's kinda died off unfortunately, and a lot of the audience and creators are now on bassline.

Honestly, do no "Dissensians" ever go down the market (I don't mean Borough), or actually talk to any working-class young people?

Glad somebody else has the perception of the sound. It seems like a very vibrant and hard-partying mainly white working-class party scene. The type of place where people might go every friday and Saturday and rinse all their money. I love how Northern it is too!

In Sheffield i don't think you will see the word 'garage' billed anywhere in connection with it - its strictly 'Niche' or 'Bassline'. I'm just upping a mix by Big Ang which is from April 07 so pretty much as current as it gets!
 

sodiumnightlife

Sweet Virginia
is it big in manchester as well? there was an awful program on about chavs in manchester the other day and they were all listening to stuff on their mobile phones that sounded like fast dance with mcs over it...they had a name for it that i didn't manage to catch.
 

aleksy

Active member
You also get mcs on the oom-pah bangin Uprising variant. Garage hasn't completely colonised Yorkshire!
 

Noah Baby Food

Well-known member
Glad somebody else has the perception of the sound. It seems like a very vibrant and hard-partying mainly white working-class party scene. The type of place where people might go every friday and Saturday and rinse all their money. I love how Northern it is too!

In Sheffield i don't think you will see the word 'garage' billed anywhere in connection with it - its strictly 'Niche' or 'Bassline'. I'm just upping a mix by Big Ang which is from April 07 so pretty much as current as it gets!

In Leeds the main DJs are Jamie Duggan, Shaun 'Banger' Scott and Danny Bond amongst others. The Northern Line stuff is more garagey and "blacker" sounding than a lot of it, but there is definite variations in the sound as a whole. Definitely a crossover with D'explicit, Agent X etc..."Bullacakes" was every kid round here's ringtone a couple of years back. You have your "womp womp" sort of bassy stuff that reminds me of Double 99/Ice Cream and all that old stuff, you have your cheesy Rhodes organ sound stuff (that I can't say I'm too keen on)...some of it does kinda border on cheesy hard house or old happy hardcore. In fact, happy hardcore is the closest comparison I can think of for the scene as a whole...the same demographic are into it, similar aesthetic. Similar limited palette of noises (as with early grime). There are MCs on the music, mainly old rave style 'hold tight/hands in the air' kinda crack but I have heard people chatting stuff with content over it.

It is quite a white working class vibe I guess, but the scene is very multi-racial and becoming more so...black and Asian kids round here dig it, it's pretty universal in a way that grime (unfortnately) never has been.

This dude, Wittyboy, is a friend of mine. Very talented lad, came from the grime scene, very good MC, decent producer, does hip hop too. He's now producing and DJing bassline, and has hooked up with Northen Line with his musical partner Nastee Boi (who's also sick) and doing very well by all accounts. I think you can tell his grimy background from his productions...it's not that far off from Narrows and Oddz and all them old school grime bods.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=123888856

And if you want to hear Nastee, myself, Krypto Kid and Wittyboy MCing (in that order) on a Hot Chip refix (not strictly garage eh), check Krypto's profile:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=14191106
 

Noah Baby Food

Well-known member
is it big in manchester as well? there was an awful program on about chavs in manchester the other day and they were all listening to stuff on their mobile phones that sounded like fast dance with mcs over it...they had a name for it that i didn't manage to catch.

Dude, if you don't say "nigger", "paki" or "yid", please don't say "chav".
 

sodiumnightlife

Sweet Virginia
Dude, if you don't say "nigger", "paki" or "yid", please don't say "chav".

I don't really think chav is up there with any of those racial slurs...i don't mean anything insulting by chav. I'm 18, and the way i use it is to denote a group of people who dress a certain way, just as i would use emo, or indie kid. Or punk. Or goth. Beyond that it has no meaning. Schemie i believe to be an offensive term, chav isn't. Why do you feel so strongly about chav (out of interest?) I don't want to offend anyone.
 
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