Dre didn't make no "faustian" pact he was fresh out from getting away from Death Row and the only other thing before that he released on Aftermath was a compilation album fans were displeased with because it wasn't another Dr Dre album, Jimmy Iovine heard " murder murder" off the slim shady EP (which is a good track) and off the strength of that convinced Dre to sign him, these were still the days when white rappers needed a black cosign to get on and also because of the success of Em, Aftermath gained the reputation of being a label who could turn talented but unwieldy lyricists into hitmakers
I know he didn't, but it's the way I frame it in my head, comic book style, to make sense of what happened re: em as cultural icon. I don't believe he deserves his position, and while it might be risky ground for me as a paleface to say so; especially considering how many black rappers piss all over his fucking head in every regard; flow, style, intelligence, swagger etc etc. But it's one of them, innit. Same old power structures. And that's why I frame this shit the way I do because it's the only way to make sense of the situation (from my pov!) This shit fans out wayyy beyond eminem, but somehow, especially now with so many people calling him the goat (as if they forgot all that came before him: amnesia is an issue) and him reminding you he's the goat whenever he gets the chance, my crosshairs land on him frequently. Hiphop was the first music I ever really cared about. I could go as far as to say it raised me. The soundtrack to my coming of age. But during those crucial years of my mid to late teens, he was the main event. And while I endured the cunt while smoking soapbar with the crew at the time, I knew for a fact the real shit had come and gone. And that isn't any backpack nostalgia bs. He just couldn't hold a candle to any of the other shit I was into. If it helps as a reference point: Gravediggaz - 6 Feet Deep (still my all time #1 hh lp,) Wu - 36 Chambers, Fugees - The Score, Naughty By Nature - 19 Naughty III and Poverty's Paradise, Warren G - Regulate, Snoop - Doggystyle, Tribe - Midnight Marauders (didn't get Low End until later) were the main ones.
These were all mature, deep records, laced with incredible beats and mind-blowing bars and then em comes along with his fuckin nasal ratatatat and oh wow he sells drugs and talks about edgy shit and it just felt fkn immature and dumb. But it was a product of the time. A time when Limp Bizkit, Bloodhound Gang and The Offspring and all the shit
@version mentioned were able to be massive, so yeah, I was looking around at my own time like wtf happened? And back then, there was no way to just get the old stuff as you can now. Especially if you didn't have much money like me. So you were kind of forced to go with the flow.
also the idea that the culture "peaked" and creativity ran dry by that point is some old backpack rap bullshit thinking with big label rap at the time,it only might look like that because 97 onwards was when the mainstream/underground divide happened in rap that plus the rise of southern hip hop and producers like Swizz Beats and Mannie Fresh making beats that didn't use samples and before that Puffy making jiggy club is what led to certain people believing rap had ran out of things to say
Yeah tbh, a lot of that stuff was good party/radio fodder, but it didn't match the stuff I listed above as far as hitting me right in my chest and making me feel like I was 10 foot tall and cool as fuck. There was an empowerment embedded in what you call backpack shit. It was street. The stuff you're mentioning is where the money suddenly ramped up and everything went deluxe. Like all the shit they'd been rapping about in the early 90s, making it, getting out of the hood, all came true and Puffy was maybe the main proponent of all that, and while I'm all for people becoming successful via their talents, the music that came from the street spoke to me differently because I related with it. The aspirational shit felt too fantasy, like yeah, cool, but I wasn't anywhere near that. No shade tho, I had great times partying along to the bling shit.
I understand if you think I'm being an ass about this
@pattycakes_ but with what we know now and with hindsight it's so easy to poke holes in the idea that big label rap ran out of creativity
Not much to say about the omitted part of the above quote apart from the only group from the 97 onward era I have any time for nowadays in Company Flow. Re: your ass thing, all good. It's good chat. You obv know a lot more than me. But, I do think my pre-96 shit is better than almost everything that came out after that, inc. the stuff you listed 😜
Hell some of those rappers and the songs/ albums they made at the time you might like now and vice versa for the stuff you did
I know quite a few people who never wanna listen to the likes of say the High & mighty or Mos Def, Krumbsnatcha,living legends or any of that lot ever again and I'm somebody who also thinks backpack rap overall from that time is deeply misunderstood by the people who loathe it aswell as the ones who still listen to it
Yeah, a lot of that era was a bit resting on laurelsy and with that comes that weird earnestness that doesn't tend to age too well, but still sort of lingers in some areas until today in the way you hint at here:
It makes me laugh when you think about some of the writing about underground rap of the time where writers would say shit that ammounted to "all these black rappers care about is materialism and guns these white are the ones upholding the culture of hip hop"
Don't take me as one of those people preciously holding on to the purity of the early 90s. None of the stuff being written about by the people writing what you're talking about here has any place next to what I'm talking about. Those 2 tracks I posted in choon of the day for eg. High n Mighty next to Big L? Nope.
I get why you picked those 2 but they came up in the 80s though 3rd bass were done by 91 and Serch and Pete Nice both failed solo wise the only noteworthy thing about them is Nas appearing on Serch's album pre illmatic and Cage(then Cage Kennylz) on Pete Nice's and the Beasties by the early 90s had gone back to their punk roots and were more so part of the 90s alternative wave than anything to do with rap at the time. Like there's a reason why hip hop people if they talk about the beasties its just their 80s shit and maybe say intergalatic and you're right them leaning on their humour did help
I was struggling to think of any legit white rappers/groups.
Like its no surprise to me that the beasties are seen as a band compared to say Tribe called quest not just because of their start in punk or using rock instruments but the 3 of them never stood out or had the same dynamic you don't hear anybody picking apart individual bars or verses like with Q-tip etc partially because they were still using 82/83 flows in 1998 but even back then in the treacherous three, kool moe dee and spoonie gee stood out and defined themselves
Yeah plus the beasties were playing dumb. The loophole I was talking about. That way you avoid scrutiny. Like you get to play along while avoiding the chopping block.
