The Media Controls Your Mind

[Mr. Tea]

I thought Beiser cleared this all up for you but apparently you want to be thick on purpose. This is propaganda produced by Big Tech to make you think they're brilliant. They are in fact impotent and their algorithms are incredibly dumb and barely work. People sit on Facebook all day because they're lazy and they like staring at screens, we've known this since 1950, nothing is new

Now you mention it, I am frequently amazed at how often FB's master algorithm throws things at me that couldn't possibly be of less interest to me. Like, stuff that's that's almost the exact opposite of things I like, but without even antagonising me to the point where I click on it out of intrigue or annoyance, either.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

There's actually no good evidence that flossing helps prevent gum disease. Few people like to admit this.

I've heard this but surely logic dictates that there's a link between having food particles jammed by the gum and gum disease, with flossing being at times the only way to remove the particle easily.

 

[Mr. Tea]

'Pseudoscience' is a midwit epithet - don't use it.

This is like Gary Glitter complaining that "nonce" is an ugly word.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

This is like Gary Glitter complaining that "nonce" is an ugly word.

You still haven't read Feyerabend, have you

How can 'scientists' not be obliged to read philosophy of science?

Feyerabend points out that by Popper's falsification criterion there is practically no scientific paradigm that is 'scientific'- they're ALL 'pseudoscience' to some degree.

 

[sus]

I have read both Feyerabend and Popper and I'm sympathetic but again, linguistic manipulation doesn't work the way NLP thinks it does, and this is a thread about linguistic manipulation.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

I have read both Feyerabend and Popper and I'm sympathetic but again, linguistic manipulation doesn't work the way NLP thinks it does, and this is a thread about linguistic manipulation.

Results, please; not mechanism. NLP makes a specific, demanding claim about the Fast Phobia Cure so let's find a deboonk of that first.

 

[sus]

Linguistic manipulation works the normal way, which is by representing the world a given way, and people then responding rationally by behaving based on the representation.

This is why priming studies don't replicate, and it's why the strongest subliminal messaging effect you'll see on stage is getting people to say random words and numbers, i.e., bending trivial and arbitrary behavior in situations where the "manipulated" agent isn't deeply invested. The video we're discussing, which droid chocked up to "NLP" and subliminal messaging, is a confirmed stage trick and never happened.

 

[sus]

I literally don't care about your fast phobia cure because (a) I don't have phobias (b) that's not what this thread is about, so do your own damn research

 

[mixed_biscuits]

I literally don't care about your fast phobia cure because (a) I don't have phobias (b) that's not what this thread is about, so do your own damn research

You were referring to NLP in general, remember?

 

[mixed_biscuits]

If you've given up trying to find a study that backs up your claim, just say so @sus

 

[mixed_biscuits]

Linguistic manipulation works the normal way, which is by representing the world a given way, and people then responding rationally by behaving based on the representation.

This is why priming studies don't replicate, and it's why the strongest subliminal messaging effect you'll see on stage is getting people to say random words and numbers, i.e., bending trivial and arbitrary behavior in situations where the "manipulated" agent isn't deeply invested. The video we're discussing, which droid chocked up to "NLP" and subliminal messaging, is a confirmed stage trick and never happened.

This is a very low resolution view, you got there.

You're a Less Wrong man and yet you seem unwilling or unable to steelman NLP, perhaps by reading a book about it for a start?

 

[sus]

It's really funny reading a novel on the couch with my feet up all day and occasionally logging in to see Mixed has quote-tweeted me four times demanding sources on some bizarre-o claim upthread, as if I'd spent my afternoon poring through GScholar to argue with some New Age theory peddled by Tony freakin Robbins, only to turn up empty handed

 

[sus]

It's also really funny that Mixed of all people is a personal devotee of Esalen Institute's in-house philosophy

 

[mixed_biscuits]

@sus I think you must have been exiled from Less Wrong, it's the only explanation.

You're the one with the bizarre-o claim, trying to make yourself sound edumacated about something of which you actually have zero knowledge or experience.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

@sus' narcissistic grandstanding exemplifies everything Less Wrong tries to shake out of people

The past few pages he's been rolling out all of the debating fallacies they tried to warn him against

 

[linebaugh]

Have you two seen Now You See Me?

 

[mixed_biscuits]

yes

 

[germaphobian]

Yes, it has nothing to do with the algorithms and everything to do with people wanting social approval or clout, which is not something innovated or controlled by tech companies. People do stupid shit for social approval on this board constantly; it isn't because of how Sufi rigged the xenforo settings.

I may be mistaken, but are you essentially saying that technology in itself is neutral and the way it's put to work is governed by larger societal forces like hierarchical power relations, economic systems and so on?

 

[sus]

No I'm saying the technology sucks donkey balls and the "algorithm" amounts to "show users things they like"

 

[sus]

All this subliminal messaging and Big Data nonsense is silly and distracts from the actual boring ways media manipulates us, eg:
- by choosing what to cover
- through framing and conceptualizing their coverage
- unconsciously and unavoidably perpetuating the memes and worldviews of the media teams / owners

It is very boring because it's basically the same way we all manipulate each other constantly. The only interesting wrinkle is that because mass media addressed to a large audience, it has much more power to shape common knowledge. (Similar to public/political speeches or sermons)