August FWD & Rinse FM @ The End / youngsta & Riko / general excitment / thread

[mms]

fwd has got a bigger audience nowdays, you need to get there pretty early on a friday now as there is a queue, which seems ridiculous compared to how it was, the 2 grime nights rephlex put on in 04 were certainly not roadblock!
I missed this, too knackered and not really feeling up for it.

Ufo, i think you can have good popular dance music, like every form of music at its best has been so far, i do think dubstep has kinda peaked now, i do think as well that it's weirdly cos of the kind of 2.0 element that's so prevalent in dubstep, dubstep forum etc, i think the best producers in any genre have quite high aesthetic standards, it's the trick of pulling some secret weapon out of the box, rather than something obvious that keeps a genre developing and moving.

 

[UFO over easy]

Ufo, i think you can have good popular dance music

Kode 9 I was speaking quite generally though I guess.

Even in Kode's case though, I think one of the reasons his selection works so well (despite the obvious one that it's absolutely amazing) even in huge club situations like last night is that now he's constantly surrounded by DJs playing it safe... it's so refreshing, even for those who can really get into hearing 'Night' 10 times in one night.. but there's only so much room for it at places like The End.

 

[mistersloane]

shame the sound system in the bar wasnt all that - just not enough detail like blackdown says. .

The trick in any of the big clubs is to get really fucking monged and then just stand by the speakers, the sound is shite on the dancefloors, but that speaker in the bar is fucking amazing if you put yr head in it, similarly the speakers behind the bar on in the big room.

I wish I liked kode9 more, he just bores me to tears, it's like sixth form music.

 

[rockypoppy2]

The trick in any of the big clubs is to get really fucking monged and then just stand by the speakers, the sound is shite on the dancefloors, but that speaker in the bar is fucking amazing if you put yr head in it, similarly the speakers behind the bar on in the big room.

ahh, well i'll keep that for next time although i was pretty monged, met some russian guy in the queue who had a makeshift bong on him, never seen people go clubbing with that :slanted:

although the sound in the end was not as bad as herbal or fabric, my ears can actually hear stuff today

 

[hopper]

As with Ben UFO, I'm not fully convinced on that Blackdown article. I usually hang on his every word agreeing but I just didn't seem to get this one. As Ben said I don't fully understand how he praised Tubby and N-Type's sets despite criticising the drop contest culture that dubstep is potentially becoming. I for one stronger than ever last night thought that his previous criticisms of dubstep culture really rang through. N-Type who's sets I generally enjoy, did very little for me yesterday. It was just mindless dull wobble. I guess I found it really unsatisfying and there was no real weight to this set at all. Also I found Tubby and Geeneus set a bit guilty of the same thing. I preferred this set though as the quick mixing was quite exciting but it just really felt like a case of been here all before and all the anthems just don't have an impact for me anymore, and I guess it just all sounded very obvious. My biggest complaint of the night was definitely the amount of pullups. During N-type's set every single song was getting pulled up and it's just so fucking dull. Especially as I thought lots of the tunes were really crap. A pullup is meant to be there when a song is really special, not for any tune with any kind of drop for fucks sake. Also I wish the sets were more varied, I heard nights around 6 times yesterday and thats not including all the pullups it got. It felt like a lot of the sets didn't really differ at all from each other and I was just so ready for everything being played.

Sorry this post is coming across completely negative as I had a good night - honestly, I did. Youngsta and Kode's sets were my personal highlights. Even though youngsta's selection is so predictable there's such a vision with his mixing and everything fits in so well that it always works and makes the impact of the songs much stronger. And not everything was getting reloaded so you could just properly zone into the music for once - loving the new headhunter bits especially from his recent sets. Kode 9 is a pure genius and I really enjoyed Flo Dan and Killa P on top of it, constantly exciting and forward thinking without trying to cater for the masses constantly. All for dubstep opening up, but couldn't help thinking there were so many people there yesterday making twats of themselves and just flat out posing which I wasn't too sure on. I guess I prefer smaller more intimate nights. Also really enjoyed Appleblim's selection, but would prefer to hear him in a more headlining slot where he could get some real atmosphere going on during his sets. Didn't know who was playing most of the time in the bar but had a nicer vibe I thought and headhunter v d1 was an awesome set.

Also worth noting how safe I thought the end staff were, couldn't really have been more lenient and good to everyone I thought over the night. I turned up and the bouncer found my 16-17 year old oyster card hidden in my beanie and he just laughed and told me to have a good night, and no one was getting kicked out for smoking inside - just given a talking to and told to put it out. Impressed.

 

[rockypoppy2]

what i want to know id when did dubstep = wobble? when i first got into it dubstep was just a word for dark, brooding, almost oppressive bass heavy music and it was fun cos no one really knew any of the songs the dj's played, everything was fresh and it felt emotive. who killed that?

n-type has never done anything for me whatsoever, hes probably one of the most boring dj's around.

 

[mistersloane]

My biggest complaint of the night was definitely the amount of pullups. During N-type's set every single song was getting pulled up and it's just so fucking dull. Especially as I thought lots of the tunes were really crap. A pullup is meant to be there when a song is really special, not for any tune with any kind of drop for fucks sake.

Yeah, it felt like fear of premature ejaculation rather than going for a fuckin great orgasm. And what was that FUCKIN dire tune with like the 10 minute Pink Floyd guitar solo in it?


I went with my mate who's never been out to a bass night before and he loved it, just loved it, it's one of those problems, isn't it? They've all worked so hard at getting recognisable bars and tunes in order to get noticed, that now it's big - and it felt like a watershed - what do you do when essentially what you've been doing is PR for yourself. What do you do when you no longer need PR, and when PR has been your mainstay?

 

[tom pr]

Also worth noting how safe I thought the end staff were, couldn't really have been more lenient and good to everyone I thought over the night. I turned up and the bouncer found my 16-17 year old oyster card hidden in my beanie and he just laughed and told me to have a good night

Brilliant! That's honestly made me happier about the whole thing.

 

[UFO over easy]

kode 9 just bores me to tears, it's like sixth form music.

he only played three or four of his own songs..

 

[mistersloane]

he only played three or four of his own songs..

I can only remember Jah War to tell the truth, I lost attention. I can see why people like what he's doing, but I was never into Echo and The Bunnymen at school for much the same reason. I preferred Wham.

 

[hopper]

Yeah, it felt like fear of premature ejaculation rather than going for a fuckin great orgasm. And what was that FUCKIN dire tune with like the 10 minute Pink Floyd guitar solo in it?


I went with my mate who's never been out to a bass night before and he loved it, just loved it, it's one of those problems, isn't it? They've all worked so hard at getting recognisable bars and tunes in order to get noticed, that now it's big - and it felt like a watershed - what do you do when essentially what you've been doing is PR for yourself. What do you do when you no longer need PR, and when PR has been your mainstay?

Well I think it's to do with the dj's really. As Kode and Mala sets always seem to flow perfectly, only pulling up when its necessary. As does youngsta who actually seems pretty pissed off when people pull up his tunes. But most dj's are pretty trigger happy right now and its just like wheel wheel wheel. Crazy D and N-type being the worst offenders, but it's a bit of a problem now, as the whole idea of a wheel has changed and to me it really lessens the specialty of a tune, and well I hope this doesn't become the future of dubstep - wobble and pullups. Maybe I'm being dramatic but maybe dubstep will branch out in 2 directions - the jumpup pullup type rave and the people that just wanna zone and meditate out on the bass? Because surely as the scene continues expanding the dynamic of the scene will change somewhere.

 

[mms]

Yeah, it felt like fear of premature ejaculation rather than going for a fuckin great orgasm. And what was that FUCKIN dire tune with like the 10 minute Pink Floyd guitar solo in it?

pink floyd?
fuck me that sounds awful
but i guess

it's inevitable, white student stoners trying to slightly intimidate each other's stoned brains, with dark wobbly music and fkin pink floyd, it never fking changes. i remember when i was listening to techno alot in 2002-3 and the whole oppressive loopy 909 stuff came in, same deal, the suppleness and colour are lost and it all becomes more regimented and oppressive, funkless, futuristic black music becomes regimented static dark music which is very weird.
You can see how people move to funky house, they've negotiated having variations on rhythm soul and colour, mainly by calling the music 'funky' house.

 

[bun-u]

made some enquiries about the possibility of making this after DC but was told there was no chance. The Wiley/Ghetto clash was pretty special, they'll be audio/footage soon. Ghetto turned up at the door and though I said he could come in for free, insisted on paying...then before you know it he's on the stage with the eskibeat youngers waiting for Wiley. I was a tad worried at this stage but it all turned out to be bless - strictly lyrical. Ghetto started out on top looking effortless with his machine gun flow, while Wiley forced his words out a little clumsily. But then Wiley came on a bit more angry a bit more focused and, boyed on stage by the youngers and by the crowd, seemed to end on top, with Ghetto sweating and over-doing his flow. In fact Wiley went to leave the stage and Ghetto pulled him back and asked him where he was going (The End presumably)....that's when we cleared the stage. Kind of explains why Wiley arrived at The End a little more on it than usual.

 

[Blackdown]

Just re-read blackdown's review of the evening, and whilst it is very well written and conveys a great sense of just how momentous an occasion it was, I can't help but compare this positive outlook with his recent overwhelmingly negative stance on the development of the genre.

He seems at cross purposes - on the one hand crying out for musical development, full of praise for those pushing boundaries like Kode 9 and Appleblim, simultaneously deriding the anthem bashers and dubstep's evolution into one big ''drop contest'. On Pitchfork he talked about dubstep 'entering into a drum & bass-style harder-than-thou contest', and yet when Tubby and Geeneus' uninspired anthem bashing set absolutely exemplifies this, it doesn't warrant comment next to the sheer spectacle of dubstep ramming out a huge central london superclub.

The big sellers are generally, with a few notable exceptions, the big dropping, hard-hitting anthems, and these are the tunes that went down well last night. I did have fun yesterday, but I honestly don’t think we can have it both ways. We can either have forward thinking music, or we can have superclubs. Interesting music, or professional music. "With scale, you gain audience but lose detail."

I stand by my words on Pitchfork and I also had a good time at The End. The latter was mostly because 1) the sense of energy, occasion and scale of that club 2) the grime MCs 3) the number of people who came out for it who dont come to Forward>> normally added to the enjoyability/community feel again.

As for Tubby & Gee, I should perhaps clarify this is the point I left, so I only saw maybe 15 mins, which I enjoyed but was too through the pain barrier to stay longer.

But you make a key point about pushing for development within dubstep, which I totally stand by. But to be honest, almost all tunes were lost in that weird, reverby space so that only ones with one, chunky element (hello wobble!) came through in the mix. The soundsystem had no definitition, such that to me, the actual music became kinda irrelevant. In spite of this, for the reasons outlined above, I still really enjoyed it.

 

[UFO over easy]

nice one, thanks for replying

 

[Sick Boy]

You come across really well in that post

Was a decent evening..

I come across bitter and frustrated because that's what I was.

I understand it's my fault for not buying tickets, and if I had a credit card, I would have.

I was thinking about dubstep and it's increasing popularity after that night. It's a very difficult thing for me to take a position on because on the one hand it is sort of what everyone has been hoping for, you know, everyone becoming successful and whatnot. That's a good thing you can't argue with. But at the same time the idea of having to queue for three hours to go see dubstep and grime with a load of newcomer fans is annoying - and I hate to feel that way because it is total elitism.

Also, I am not one to judge - I was never into dubstep myself until relatively recently (around the time of Midnight Request Line), because I got into it through grime. I suppose what really bothers me is that the DJs have become boring, and it seems to me that dubstep is about to do a drum and bass and stagnate. The newcomers are getting to know and appreciate dubstep as being predominantly this wobble-style shit and are therefore not having a wider understanding of what the genre is about, extending the prevalence of this style into the future (especially when you consider that DJs like N Type are now guaranteed to make more money off these people if he continues to cater to them).

I wonder if this is actually an inevitability of a sound becoming popular? I feel the numbers dubstep raves pull out right now are still small enough for the DJ to be the tastemaker. This is a bit of a chicken or egg thing, but I don't think normal people are that stupid - if N Type were to play something else other than this mindless cockrocking wobble-bass offshoot of the sound, the newcomers and original heads alike would still go nuts for his sets simply because it is all introductory to the newcomers anyway and therefore hard to comparitively criticize, and would also be providing the breath of fresh air to the day-one-ers that they all seem desperate for.

 

[Tactics]

all I can say is

that queue was F*****

next time it's canvas...the peeps I was with were p***** lol - if fwd weekly at that place now?

also Sick Boy...your not wrong but it's still early days yet. dubstep hasn't 'made' it and I think the producers and dj's know what their doing...there is an image of more cohesion and sense than grime

an IMAGE that is

 

[Sick Boy]

an IMAGE that is

*raises glass*

 

[Sick Boy]

also Sick Boy...your not wrong but it's still early days yet.

I agree, that's what I meant to say when I said "I feel the numbers dubstep raves pull out right now are still small enough for the DJ to be the tastemaker."

 

[mos dan]

this mindless cockrocking wobble-bass offshoot of the sound

great line.

i missed all of slimzee. and vectra vs spyro. by accident. i am an idiot.