kano - new album 'london town'

[MATT MAson]

Cultural aspects, while important, do not in any way allow you to identify a Grime production by ear.

This is an important point, not just about grime but about any genre. Can someone really identify something like grime just by ear?

There are hip hop productions at the same bpm as grime that grime DJs drop in grime sets. Big Pimpin' by Jay-z for example. Grime DJs used to drop that all the time at Sidewinder, with 10 Grime MCs spitting over it, in front of a crowd who had come out to listen to grime, who were going mad. I would argue that what you were seeing would still count as "grime."

Now imagine a hip hop head in New York turns on Hot 97. He has no idea what grime is, and thinks London is a funny little island from Austin Powers. Pitbull's version of Forward Riddim is being played by Funkmaster Flex. But this hip hop head likes Pitbull, so he leaves it on, thinking he's listening to a hip hop tune. Is this "grime?"

I think a true definition of something like this is more nuanced. Geography and all kinds of other non-musical things are just as important as drum programming.

 

[Logan Sama]

See, for STEREOTYPICAL Grime beats there is a clearly definable sound. Something like FWD riddim really doesn't sound like Big Pimpin. Something lik eEskimo really doesn't sound like What's Your Fantasy.

But not every Grime beat is a stereotypical Grime beat and not every Hip Hop beat is a stereotypical kick snare mid tempo creation with no bassline.

But if I go back to the original point, I just went through Kano's mixtape again. There is 9 American Hip Hop instrumentals 2 Jamaican Dancehall productions. 3 inhouse productions that I consider Hip Hop (I Write Bars, Kidz With Gunz and Layer Cake) and 2 Grime productions. And an Intro and Outro.

This isn't an argument about what is and isn't Grime and the questionable nature of the sound. It is about Kano's mixtape and the fact it is blatantly not Grime because the instrumentals are America and Jamaican songs which Kano has freestyled over. That is why I am being so black and white about the matter. It is not a question of my perception of Grime.

 

[Logan Sama]

I understand what you want to say but I don't get how it is supposed to go. Is the idea that grime consists of anything I can play in a grime set/together with a bunch of `other' grime and not have it sound out of place? Disregarding the fact that this is circular (first we have to know what other grime is, well we have some benchmarks so thats fine), couldn't other genres fit into grime sets or whatever without sounding odd? certainly I have heard plenty of dancehall productions that would fit in with grime, and vice versa.

You can fit other music into a Grime set and it not be out of place. I have done this for years. It does not make those other tracks Grime tracks though.

Grime is not anything you can play in a set. Grime is an actual genre of music. You can play genres next to each other and they not sound out of place, it does not mean that you are altering the genre of music you are playing just by association.

And in regards to the Pitbull on FWD track, whilst someone who knows no better might think it was a way out there Hip Hop production by association to the vocalist, that doesn't mean it therefor IS a Hip Hop production. The listener is just ignorant to what genre of music it actually is.

 

[MATT MAson]

I respect your commitment to the scene Logan, but sometimes you do sound a bit like the babysitter in Jerry Maguire who's obsessed with jazz.

 

[Logan Sama]

There is a pattern in Mr Sama's remarks. The public has no idea what grime is

Other critics, for instance Blackdown, have no idea either

even the artists themselves have no idea

how lucky we are we have Mr Sama to explain it all, and what a humble man He is

Someone who has never heard the word Grime being used as a name for a Genre, let alone heard Grime music in their life... for example the average listener of Hot 97, would not recognise Grime when they hear it because they are ignorant to it's existence. Ignorant is not an insult.

Artists for the most part know what Grime is. Some don't. Most of them willingly choose to go off and make other genres of music knowing they are not making Grime.

Blackdown has repeatedly through his writing displayed various signs that he doesn't really understand Grime all that well.

Thank you for your input trolz, perhaps you would like to address some of the other points I made the effort to write? Rather than waiting for goats under your bridge.

Matt.... how can I write that much in a reply to you, and you don't even bother to respond to it, you turn to mockery again?

And is there any danger of someone actually listening to the Kano mix Cd to find out if I am right?

 

[MATT MAson]

Sorry Logan, you know mockery is always my first port of call.

See, for STEREOTYPICAL Grime beats there is a clearly definable sound. Something like FWD riddim really doesn't sound like Big Pimpin. Something lik eEskimo really doesn't sound like What's Your Fantasy.

Not true. My dad, for example, would probably disagree with you on this. All of this is very subjective, which is why I think you have to define any scene by more than the music. As you rightly point out,

not every Grime beat is a stereotypical Grime beat and not every Hip Hop beat is a stereotypical kick snare mid tempo creation with no bassline.

I haven't heard Kano's mixtape. I can't comment on that and I haven't done so. What I was commenting on is how you define grime. We've had this argument before, you're very defensive about what grime is/isn't, and I don't understand why. Holding a scene like grime down to a very static definition will only serve to undermine it. When grime is dead and buried (completely, that is) is the time to define it. But right now it's still a work in progress. And that's a good thing.

I will say this about Kano or any other artist using beats from other scenes: The moment they put them in a different context, they change the meaning of those beats. If a crowd observes that and responds, they help change it too. Quantum physics innit. A scene is not what one person says it is, it's what many collectively perceive it to be, which is why you, me or anyone else can never really know or have any real authority on such a matter.

 

[Eric]

You can fit other music into a Grime set and it not be out of place. I have done this for years. It does not make those other tracks Grime tracks though.

Grime is not anything you can play in a set. Grime is an actual genre of music. You can play genres next to each other and they not sound out of place, it does not mean that you are altering the genre of music you are playing just by association.

And in regards to the Pitbull on FWD track, whilst someone who knows no better might think it was a way out there Hip Hop production by association to the vocalist, that doesn't mean it therefor IS a Hip Hop production. The listener is just ignorant to what genre of music it actually is.

OK. Looks like I got you wrong. But now I am completely baffled. What IS it????

Ah well. Maybe there's no point nitpicking.

 

[mos dan]

*resentfully goes and listens to kano mixtape again just to reappraise comments in context*

 

[Logan Sama]

Grime is a genre of music which has certain sonic characteristics. It also produces MCs who have certain characteristics in the way they spit.

You all know what an atypical Grime beat sounds like. Just because a Grime artist vocals a piece of music, or a DJ plays a piece of music in a set amongst Grime records, that does not make them Grime tunes.

They can still be Grime artists or Grime DJs. But the tunes do not suddenly change genre just because someone else is using them.

 

[MATT MAson]

Throughout history of music, tunes have changed genre in certain people's eyes once they are introduced to a different scene. Try asking a funk fan, a disco fan and an old skool hip hop fan who all grew up in New York in the 1970s what kind of record "The Mexican" by Babe Ruth is if you don't believe me.

 

[Poisonous Dart]

A Ha!

Throughout history of music, tunes have changed genre in certain people's eyes once they are introduced to a different scene. Try asking a funk fan, a disco fan and an old skool hip hop fan who all grew up in New York in the 1970s what kind of record "The Mexican" by Babe Ruth is if you don't believe me.

True © Spandau Ballet

However, 75% of the time the answer will be "a classic" or "a classic break"...very few people would pin a genre on "The Mexican"...maybe they would with joints like "Soul Makosa" but not that one.

One.

 

[Logan Sama]

Taking a record. Sampling it. Looping it up. Re-editing the break. Generally altering it in some way to fit your needs. These are all things which create new genres.

Simply taking The Mexican, or Lyn Collins, or Apache and mcing right the way over the whole track without altering it in any way does not effect the genre.

When Ghostface rapped the whole way through the Delfonics, did it make the Delfonics a Hip Hop record? It was a man rapping over a Delfonics record. What Ghostface was doing was Hip Hop. The actual music was not. Play someone that record with him muted you have the original song. It does not change genre. Play someone the instrumental of Mr Me Too it is Hip Hop.

Sample Mr Me Too and fuck with it to suit your needs.... it might become Grime. Depends what you do to it. Spit over the instrumental exactly as it appears on the single? No, you are a Grime artist doing a hip hop track sir.

 

[MATT MAson]

When Ghostface rapped the whole way through the Delfonics, did it make the Delfonics a Hip Hop record? It was a man rapping over a Delfonics record. What Ghostface was doing was Hip Hop. The actual music was not.

Right. So therefore what Kano is doing with his mixtape is "grime", even though some of the tracks are "not grime"

?

 

[Logan Sama]

Sometimes. Often he slips lazily into spitting like Jay Z. On a whole I would call Kano a Grime artist. The way he spits is usually in the Grime style. I would call Kano a Grime artist even though he very, very rarely vocals Grime tracks. The way he MCs is clearly predominantly influenced by the Grime scene.

But again, just because someone is a Grime artist, not everything they do is Grime.

 

[gumdrops]

that single with craig david is so cheesy euro trance sounding. ugh. i dunno whats happened to kano on this album... taking himself a bit too seriously IMO and despite what logan says, he sounds like hes trying his hardest to spit like a hip hop emcee on this album.

 

[Logan Sama]

so in one breath you want to dismiss me with one word (troll), while blaming others that they do the same to you, while you insulted them way more than i did you ( i merely repeated your own words).

i would say "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

Telling someone they don;t know much about Grime is an insult these days? I didn;t realise knowledge of Grime was a pre-requisite to being a good person.

You however I will insult. Because you are a cock. If you can't actually discuss the topic but are willing to put the effort into looking up quotes by me where I say artists are going off doing other types of music very frequently at the expense of making higher quality Grime then you obviously have no interest in the discussion, you just want to be a smart arse. So fuck you.

I will be low brow, insulting and crude to someone who can;t be bothered to actually raise up any points about the subject and simply attack personally. Do I shall unto you as you do unto others

 

[Logan Sama]

that single with craig david is so cheesy euro trance sounding. ugh. i dunno whats happened to kano on this album... taking himself a bit too seriously IMO and despite what logan says, he sounds like hes trying his hardest to spit like a hip hop emcee on this album.

I think a problem with Kano spitting on slower beats in that so-laid-back-it's-horizontal style is that he can tend to end up sounding unengaging and drowsy. And when he attempts to change it up on the slower beats it almost comes across as sounding over aggressive. I think vocally the faster tempo beats suit him.

 

[gumdrops]

yeah but theres virtually no fast beats on this at all! so that kano that comes out on faster beats is nowhere to be found....

on first impressions, i think the last album was better, and not to say it was a bad album - it wasnt at all - but i wasnt nuts about that one either.

 

[Logan Sama]

What did you think about the Damon Albarn "appearance"?

I think this is something which needs to be addressed seriously. Did Albarn produce the track? Because it is a lose/lose situation artistically. If Damon made the beat then they got robbed because the beat is uninspired tosh and anyone could have made it. It is dull as ditchwater. And if he was only responsible for the vocal appearance then boy...... I would be interested to know how much Mr Albarn charges to say La La La La La these days.

It just reeks of label pandering. Grab a still recognisable name in to do nothing particularly interesting then stick that name on EVERY piece of promotional literature you can. Same with Lethal B and Pete Doherty. I mean, if these artists they are featuring and paying aren;t actually going to go into the studio and work on a song with you, what's the point?

I do think it is a dreadful song, but at least Lily Allen and Dizzee sat down and did a song together in the same studio

And how can Kate Nash be on more Grime albums this year than 99% of Grime artists?

 

[evergreen]

Kano has a great hip-hop flow IMO, but it really is such a shame that he doesn't do more fast songs. i thought he sounded utterly alien on "Boys Love Girls" and was so excited to hear more of that type of flow from him.

are the Movement's Dipset-esque 135-145 tracks grime?