dilbert1
Well-known member
So what if it sounds antiquated? What was it you said about not assuming an ascending line? Its ‘very’ jungle but its jungle. That’s all we’re talking about right?
Jungle
So what if it sounds antiquated? What was it you said about not assuming an ascending line? Its ‘very’ jungle but its jungle. That’s all we’re talking about right?
dilbert1
Well-known member
I agree, there’s a lot of the latter about. But even if you’re embedded in that subculture and then go off and make some weird abstract 170 record, I’m not thereby obligated to call it jungle
Not really, they are too hyperactive to work in the rave. genre is also to do with location.
Soul in Motion was a weird abstract record back in its day, and so was Terminator, relative to the piano hardcore.
it wasn't though. not at the time. It sounded totally different to any hardcore record at the time. It was loosely classed as hardcore, sure, but this is what happens when you try to compile the sound rather than listen to it in mixtape form.
There are raves for the halftime sound, you know.
fun is overrated. might as well listen to happy hardcore if you're going to have fun, it does that much better than jungle.
if we're being absolutely strict, (not a perspective I'm fond of) 92 jungle is rebel mc and ibiza records, maybe noise factory. Definitely not Terminator.
You have to understand that things evolved astonishingly fast back then. 21st century culture evolves at a much, much, much slower pace.
So much so that you will have people like GQ on AWOL tapes calling what they played in '92 house music, randall saying we have the sound of hardcore on his kiss fm shows in 94.
You have to understand that things evolved astonishingly fast back then. 21st century culture evolves at a much, much, much slower pace.
So much so that you will have people like GQ on AWOL tapes calling what they played in '92 house music, randall saying we have the sound of hardcore on his kiss fm shows in 94.
A lot of ragga jungle is/was ramshackle and kind of when the scene started to cannibalise itself and get really formulaic with amen rinseout after amen rinseout. I love it, personally, but my criticism isn't about that. I also like a lot of breakcore. The truth about the speed and bluenote sounds (misguided as they may be in retrospect) was the attempt to reset the balance.
I was speaking to @droid about this a few years ago, and kind of said something like why couldn't have ragga jungle continued for longer, and he did say something to the effect of eventually it did get one note.
This not to mention reggae boys seeing the junglists as impinging on their turf. Of course the Americans and Canadians can revive it in that context because they aren't surrounded by sounds who want a slice of the pie. Things got big. £50000 changing hands regularly at Thunder Joy in Tottenham Court Road etc. When you have that sort of money going around the gangs are going to get involved, and then you have to hire protection rackets to protect you from other gangs. This also happened in the very white berlin techno scene in the 90s.
dilbert1
Well-known member
I'm less focused on terminology or what people called things as they were evolving. Genre boundaries will always be easier to define retrospectively as they become established in a dynamic way over time. Reinforced and Ibiza were in similar transient territory in '92. Terminator was innovative because hardcore adapted and responded to it. Those one-off arteur doodles abrogate any such task. And THAT is why they're no fun.
yes, cheese.
Happy hardcore is cheese at its most intense level, at the level of jouissance.
the cheese in jungle is a palliative.
Auteur theory doesn't really exist in dance music. There are plenty of weird techno-y hardcore records which could have supplanted Terminator, but they didn't, because djing is not about authorial intent but audience participation. Those were tunes which merely stuck out to me in that realm, there are loads of them if you search by playlist on youtube. It's not as outsider as you're making it out to be.
I mean, heck, dBridge from Bad fucking Company was instrumental in generating this halftime sound.
What you can say, and I would agree with you, is that those tracks I posted have evolved so far away from classic jungle signifiers.
But to say they have no relation to jungle or dnb is daft.
It would be like saying Slayer isn't a rock band because they don't sound like Creedence Clearwater revival.