Because its a communal music.
Jungle
Because its a communal music.
dilbert1
Well-known member
Platitudes!
sure, skunk psychosis can be fun, also. But you don't think so.
not really, if you start boxing off aspects which you think are boring or auteur you start regressing to idmification.
Again this is where people on here can't understand Autechre as an extension of dance music.
dilbert1
Well-known member
In 2024 that seems rather off the table for any genre. As far as jungle, I just want it to bang and have a sense of humor or individual style
ok we're getting somewhere.
so then the question is, where is your cut off point with the evolution of the jungle-dnb subculture. like where you do say with dnb this is not what I'm into.
This might seem universal, but it's not. It actually really can vary from individual to individual.
because someone like @luka wouldn't consider this jungle. it doesn't have the mania or poptimism of 94, it's too bukem-esque. Yet to me it's still jungle, albeit dnb with a big foot in jungle.
And from his perspective he's right. because for him jungle is 93-94 jungle. 95, 96, these might be jungle in name, but they aren't the real thing for him, too arty.
And from his perspective he's right. because for him jungle is 93-94 jungle. 95, 96, these might be jungle in name, but they aren't the real thing for him, too arty.
for instance, I think this has more in common with later dnb than anything jungle, but it is strictly speaking jungle.
So the cut off is important.
dilbert1
Well-known member
There is no absolute cutoff. It can vary from tune to tune, too. I'm not sure how to measure innovation, it takes time and reaction and interaction for things to shift in a bigger way like I was saying. There's got to be something in the wake of a Terminator or Pulp Ficiton for them to mean anything because its not auteurist, like you were saying. So if there's no scene, there's no innovation. And there will never be a scene in the way there was pre-internet, so innovation becomes a very slippery fetish term. Obviously if this were some kind of thermal graph there was a massive energy drop off around 1995-6.
what I'm getting from your post is that you have a preference for when jungle is still retaining the mania of hardcore.
so, great tune this may be to you, but it is almost too funky, too groovey.
dilbert1
Well-known member
There's another sense in which jungle is the sort of music which appears when all formal experimentation reaches a critical point of inertia. Its a vessel we can fill with all manners of content. It doesn't have to be faffing around with vintage pads and the same stock stuff. But it'd be interesting to hear that stuff mixed in more with the quotidian and contemporary. Jungle is a kind of medial magnet for sonic cultural fragments (including the breaks themselves), its the closest thing to a pleasurable aesthetic experience detournement could ever get. Those two tracks I quoted along with the Om Unit and Binga (which I'll refer to specifically since you're posting stuff all over the map and erroneously pretending are classificatory quagmires) have none of this verve. They are after something else, and it is not my business to judge whether their other chosen cause is noble or not, but simply that it is other.
all these things can be seen as forms of paranoia, danger or adrenaline rushes, they don't exclusively have to be conflated with emotional brightness, positivity or optimism.
In fact, this is how @craner contracted herpes, by going to northern soul revival nights instead of enduring the techno punishment of Andrew Weatherall at the Orbit. Impatience is not always a virtue, you see.
ok but even then the revival jungle is other?
I mean, it's reviving a 30 year old music form, how is it anything but nostalgic. They are after the extreme commercialisation and stagnation of of dnb.
dilbert1
Well-known member
It absolutely is jump up. Jump up is a subgenre of jungle/dnb. And so is ragga. So its got elements from both subgenres, along with more general elements from straight up jungle. I'm going to have a similar answer for all these examples. None of them are really straining my position
Not really, jungle appeared because of specific racial and cultural tensions in the rave scene. Again, you're looking at it from the perspective of 2024, not trying to envisage London in 1992.
dilbert1
Well-known member
Not totally, when its doing its job. I think the revivalists have the right idea going back to where things left off, but a lot of the time they're stuck there playing it safe. Its got to be bombastic, balls out, stunning. I think one of the reasons jungle was innovative was because it expanded the limits of what someone might hear on the dance floor, rhythmically and linguistically too. Ridiculous shocking things, laughable sometimes, or spine-tingling, or uncannily familiar.