Campaign For Real DJ's
- Thread starter alex
- Start date
I've seen loads of brilliant laptop sets live. However I think that if its an artist who've people have specifically payed to see it seems like a bit of a cop out if they are not messing about with some midi controllers/out-board effects/ doing some gimicky act. I remember seeing Luke Vibert a few years ago and he was literally staring at the laptop screen barely moving and smugly smiling to himself throughout the whole set. You've got to atleast give the illusion of performance to the audience.
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joe narcossist
Active member
Quite often two tunes played together in ableton (with the warp markers set perfect) sound awkward and I find myself desperately wanting to nudge one of them forward or back a bit.
Obviously when your mixing vinyl the mix sounds best when the grooves are locked together, not simply placed exactly on top of each other, and this interplay between rhythms creates alot of energy - something the warp marker system doesn't account for. Will be interesting if the developers can come up with a way around this.
Obviously when your mixing vinyl the mix sounds best when the grooves are locked together, not simply placed exactly on top of each other, and this interplay between rhythms creates alot of energy - something the warp marker system doesn't account for. Will be interesting if the developers can come up with a way around this.
joe narcossist
Active member
Supported Timeblind a few weeks back and his Ableton set was very engaing and evolving - lots of small sections mixed quickly that moved through alot of styles over an hour and a half and really ebbed and flowed.
yes, will be playing with him first time this weekend, well excited. this will be a chance for him to get as far from the usual dubstep (not that his sets are ever the "usual") as he likes... man tells me there's a lot of afro-tech and afro-beat that he's been wanting to play...
Using Ableton to split all your own meticulously crafted studio productions to kick, perc, sub, low, hi and fx channels, chop into sections and rewrite them on the fly is the one. Using it to DJ other peoples music on 2 channels isnt the one, unless you're doing something seriously exceptional with fx or looping / re-editing.
I mix digitally on Traktor a lot but that is still close to the 2 decks and getting things in time side of DJing, even with cue points etc - theres nothing in Traktor to actually create music with as such. Playing other peoples music in that fashion on Ableton just seems like its missing the point a bit.
Grievous Angel
Beast of Burden
When I DJ with ableton it's very physical.
but then I'm playing my stuff / dubs, and it's half live anyway with extra sections, fx etc.
I've never tried serato though - quite fancy that. and you can't spinback in ableton.
but then I'm playing my stuff / dubs, and it's half live anyway with extra sections, fx etc.
I've never tried serato though - quite fancy that. and you can't spinback in ableton.
do you find this with serato djs as well? i don't like the bit when i'm djign where i'm staring at the laptop, choosing songs etc - i'm interested to know what it looks/feels like for the audience. obviously i spend a lot of time on the mixer, turntables and pitch faders as well, but i worry that the computer gets in the way sometimes. but surely i used to stick my head in a box for half the set so it shouldn't make any difference? i dunno...
are you sure?
seems to me like exactly the same thing as saying drum machines have no soul.
and exactly what the folkies said about Bobby D going electric back in 1967.
Alfons
Way of the future
well not as far as Im concerned at least, like ableton and have used it lots. I complained that I feel that people aren't using it to its full potential in live situations and that mixes done on ableton feel stiffer and colder, and that they lack spontaneity, improv and live feel. However none of these criticism were presented in the technophobic rockist terms that your strawman consisted of.
What do you like about ableton dj'ing? What made you go that way? Do you disagree with the criticisms made? (such as coldness, stiff, mixing point from narcossist, the selection thing droid mentioned etc).
slackk
-
It's less so with Serato because there's an active element in the fact that you're not using a mouse to mix.
As I said, I think it's more my way of thinking as opposed to anything else but I just hate sitting and watching someone use a computer and that's it. If you're performing "live" then it's different.
But it just feels like cheating, if you're mixing. For me.
In the venue Kool Herc started out in, he used to have to DJ in a seperate room from the dance floor, having to rush back and forth between both rooms to judge the reaction to the tunes he was playing.
Tentative Andy
I'm in the Meal Deal
In terms of people who talk about laptop DJing as 'cheating' and similar concepts - whilst I can certainly understand how the prevalence of laptop sets would be frustrating to someone who has come up using turntables and put in the time and effort that using them requires, when you try and look at the whole thing objectively, I don't think it can particularly matter what the technology used is, and how difficult or simple it is to use, as long the end result still sounds good.
If anything, perhaps the widespread availabilty of DJ software could reboost the DIY aspect of DJ/dance music culture, get people involved who might have been put off when decks were the only option (because of lack of co-ordination, say, or not being able to afford them). I don't have a problem in principle with DJing and music manipulation becoming 'easier' (if indeed it is), so long as the people using the technology are still in a position of creative control, or at least of having creative input.
NB - not meaning this as a dig at Slackk in particular, as he's made it clear that his view is his own personal one and based on his background. But it reminded me of things I've heard said more widely.
If anything, perhaps the widespread availabilty of DJ software could reboost the DIY aspect of DJ/dance music culture, get people involved who might have been put off when decks were the only option (because of lack of co-ordination, say, or not being able to afford them). I don't have a problem in principle with DJing and music manipulation becoming 'easier' (if indeed it is), so long as the people using the technology are still in a position of creative control, or at least of having creative input.
NB - not meaning this as a dig at Slackk in particular, as he's made it clear that his view is his own personal one and based on his background. But it reminded me of things I've heard said more widely.
none of what i said was aimed at you, Alfons, you loveable little smiley cartoon you. it was directed at the "ableton is fake" premise of the original post.
of course i don't disagree with these criticisms. as i would not disagree when someone says drum machines are rigid and mechanical.
obviously.
they are different tools, with different properties and advantages/short comings. that's all.
the mixing point i have never noticed.
the selections tending toward a certain type of tracks... i can see some others falling into that trap, but not me. as i play things like turn of last century Egyptian lounge singers and wedding songs of ethnic minority populations of North Korea. and in this respect ableton has been an amazing tool to realize things i've day dreamed about for literally years, and tried and tried to but was never really able to pull off before.
portability, not having to beatmatch thus able to use the time to do other things. i ditched my old set up when i hopped on a plane and moved to Berlin.
the biggest thing for me personally, and what i do as a dj, is the ability to play and beatmatch all the amazing recordings made in different times and places.
i dont know what some people are talking about when they say warping is a bitch. i use ableton 6 and it has never been a problem at all. with an electronic track it takes me about 5 seconds, a 5 minute song by a live band with even beat it takes about 1-2 minutes.
reminds me i have to up the CRAZIEST tempo MIND FUCK for y'all to scratch your head and puzzle over... it's this Balinese Gamelan track, and the tempo rises from 100 to 200, and at the same time completely seamlessly, becomes 100 again. it's an infinity loop...