Dubstep

[mos dan]

thats the complete polar opposite of what i've said.

hurrah, we have dissensus!

sorry for realsies, i'm not sure which bit you're referring to. i know you didn't say that about wonKy, but you said "Are you lot sad really cos a track you love isn't getting his approval?", and baboon said people were taking it "personally" and that this was "enlightening".

i take both of your points, i just disagree.

 

[alex]

someone from dpr keeps trying to send me links to 'funky dubstep' on twitter.. i'll see if i can find it.

yea that is erm Noodles, that dubchild remix, hot 1

 

[baboon2004]

so when he talks fraff, a lot of people, especially people outside of this board, are going to take it as fact (blog posts by ignorants immediately sprung up following the 'wonKy' piece saying "wow, apparently the new thing on the wonky scene is ketamine!!!"). *that* is the only reason it erks me.

causing massive misconceptions is quite amusing in itself - maybe he's just got a drier sense of humour than he's given credit for.

back to the dubstep...can anyone tell me if Sully has had any tunes out since Give Me Up?

 

[mos dan]

causing massive misconceptions is quite amusing in itself - maybe he's just got a drier sense of humour than he's given credit for.

i don't doubt that for a minute! and fully support it. there's a distinct lack of humour in most blogging, that's why i like prancehall.

EDIT: support any (generic) humorous aspect. while also disagreeing and being annoyed with the (specific) blog post. sorry i'm being so confusing, i've not had much sleep :-s

 

[mms]

i think you are attracted more to the idea of him trying to get people's backs up, rather than agreeing with him on the actual contents of the article...

16 bit, chainsaw massacre, Really??

again polar opposite, i'm suprised you lot are interested.

 

[4linehaiku]

causing massive misconceptions is quite amusing in itself - maybe he's just got a drier sense of humour than he's given credit for.

back to the dubstep...can anyone tell me if Sully has had any tunes out since Give Me Up?

I think this was post-Give Me Up.
http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=143065

and more recently:
http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=172767

Great tunes. Interesting that Boomkat was the first result for both, I guess most of the other big record stores don't really have pages dedicated to each individual release. Poor planning from a search engine optimization point of view.

 

[Grievous Angel]

back to the dubstep...can anyone tell me if Sully has had any tunes out since Give Me Up?

I have a Sully remix that is THE TUNE OF THE YEAR

 

[Grievous Angel]

I like chainsaw massacre but simon is proposing a false opposition between hyph mngo (which is a GREAT tune marcus! it just has too long an intro) and 'ardkore-ish sounds.

I just blogged this but... played right after Joy Orbison on Friday. He played Hyph as his last tune, in its entirety, long intro and all, and the place WENT OFF. Crowd got it totally. It's a RAVE TUNE. Surely this is obvious? Maybe not til you're in the dance but if you mix it over bangers (as I did for the radio one mix) it's condensed ecstasy. He played it after dropping loads of grime, garage and bassline and it fit perfectly. I think Simon will come round to it in a bit.

I followed it with So Solid's Oh No (Sentimental Things) and it worked a treat...

 

[UFO over easy]

all i've got from this thread is that simon reynolds is shit lost it etc, because he likes a different song to the approved dubstep anthem that all the nice boys like.

he's allowed to like what he likes

i just don't see why, in order to big something up, it should be necessary to find something to deride, something to sneer at

it's a nasty, snide, smug post

joy orbison made a couple of tunes, he's not a seasoned producer. the hype about hyph mngo was really nothing to do with him, but as a result of it he finds himself the subject of uninformed personal attacks by the worlds best known dance music critic. it's a grim situation.

 

[Tentative Andy]

I think the very heatedness of the debate Reynolds throws up on this board is enlightening in itself - a great many people at Dissensus (and I include myself in this) have taken it somewhat personally that his critical writing seems so off-point these days. And the only reason this would happen is if those same people valued his work intensely in the first place. As unoriginal as this may be, I still have to say that Energy Flash undoubtedly changed my musical life more than any other book I've read, especially in the days before the internet made almost every obscure question answerable within seconds (I still struggle to get my head round how different it was, before - people went to bed with questions rattling around in their head....).

Edit: And to echo a point above, his writing is a peg or two above most music scribes.

But really, Simon, Hyph Mngo is great.

Agree 100% with this, and also with what Grievous just said.
That's all I have to add to the debate.

 

[Slothrop]

I like chainsaw massacre but simon is proposing a false opposition between hyph mngo (which is a GREAT tune marcus! it just has too long an intro) and 'ardkore-ish sounds.

I just blogged this but... played right after Joy Orbison on Friday. He played Hyph as his last tune, in its entirety, long intro and all, and the place WENT OFF. Crowd got it totally. It's a RAVE TUNE. Surely this is obvious? Maybe not til you're in the dance but if you mix it over bangers (as I did for the radio one mix) it's condensed ecstasy. He played it after dropping loads of grime, garage and bassline and it fit perfectly. I think Simon will come round to it in a bit.

Yeah. The main thing that winds me up about his writing these days is that he keeps making these generalizations about crowds, vibes, DJs, scenes etc based on not actually having been to the relevant clubs or met the relevant people. Which seems like the exact opposite of what he used to be about, and also a bit of a waste given that when he's writing about what he knows, close reading a record or whatever, he's still right on top of it... and sweeping generalizations aren't just off-point, they're also less interesting than a more complex view based on closer experience (eg blackdown these days, reynolds when he's not trying to write about the sociology of contemporary uk dance culture) because he's no longer forcing you (or himself) to engage with a challenging viewpoint, just say 'yeah, that confirms my prejudices' or 'no, he's lost touch.'

On a non blissblogger related note, next weekend looks absolutely ridiculous as far as nights in london go - Producers House, Subloaded takeover at Corsica, U Dun Know... it's almost silly.

 

[lazybones]

mms; what is the polar opposite of

being "attracted more to the idea of him trying to get people's backs up, rather than agreeing with him on the actual contents of the article" ?


i'm actually confused, not trying to be a wind up..... , your into the idea of people winding reynolds up??

--
agree with ben, what does hating on hyph have to do with 16-bit?

disliking wobble goes beyond what it sounds like, as soon as shit head wobble djs turn up at fwd / run the show at a night like rinse@matter i ,without fail , get a call from my girlfriend saying that she got hassled all night by sweaty pricks.... its like a scumbag magnet , that sort of music.


reynolds says "maximalist direction in post-wobble is the way to go i think... " but on what f'ing basis does he say this? ? ? does he just sit in a chair spazzing out to 16bit?? he is so obviously playing devil's advocate, in a really lame, predictable manner....... i would just love to superglue him to the middle of a packed club with 16 bit , n type , raffertie etc all playing out.... cos im sure he'd jizz himself over the ludic-ness of it all, ohhh shit music,. i mean please. , its not LIQUID VS JUMP UP or hardcore vs detroit.... squarepusher vs jungle..... etc etc etc

hyph is a rhythmic dane-able tune, chainsaw is a retarded sludge fest , no groove, no nothing, its not even very "extreme" or "maximal" in regard to its modulation / lfo usage, somthing like guttermusic VIP is way more maximal....


nb: and he says "Wobble horror" is like wobble's windowlicker, but i thought idm/experimentalism was ich dont think so??? don't follow his logic at all.

 

[tom lea]

just echoing what dan said, hyph mngo over youtube & hyph mngo at a club = different beasts. has so much emotional presence that doesnt come thru til you hear it loud.

chainsaw is a retarded sludge fest , no groove, no nothing, its not even very "extreme" or "maximal" in regard to its modulation / lfo usage, somthing like guttermusic VIP is way more maximal....

also this. i mean it's just shit, isnt it? can see how he likes raffertie, cos at least there's some inventiveness there, even if it's misdirected i think. but 16 bit. come on.

 

[gumdrops]

reynolds is hilarious. almost like the westwood of the 'nuum' blogosphere, totally self aware, obv now past the point where his tastes intersect/dovetail with the wider audience on whats out there, so hes almost just doing it for laughs now. his preferences make total sense in light of his previous tastes - and he admits it himself. hes more into the heritage side of things these days, in rock and rave. i think thats where he seems most comfortable. and well thats prob the best paying stuff out there for music writers, so its prob a good time for him to no longer have to feel engaged with whats really doing it for everyone else.

 

[UFO over easy]

also this. i mean it's just shit, isnt it? can see how he likes raffertie, cos at least there's some inventiveness there, even if it's misdirected i think. but 16 bit. come on.

this is equally pointless though

what does liking hyph mngo have to do with disliking 16 bit?

this is a stupid game

 

[Tentative Andy]

Reckon that Raffertie tune is quite good btw.

 

[gragy10]

i just don't see why, in order to big something up, it should be necessary to find something to deride, something to sneer at

it's a nasty, snide, smug post

joy orbison made a couple of tunes, he's not a seasoned producer. the hype about hyph mngo was really nothing to do with him, but as a result of it he finds himself the subject of uninformed personal attacks by the worlds best known dance music critic. it's a grim situation.

To be fair, snide, smug and uninformed personal attacks have been frequent Reynolds tactics for as long as i can remember (most recently the guardian blog caspa piece going wild on the socio-economic assumptions and lingerie shopping habits tip).
Seems pretty typical of that 80's music weekly school of criticism to me.

 

[mms]

he's allowed to like what he likes

i just don't see why, in order to big something up, it should be necessary to find something to deride, something to sneer at

it's a nasty, snide, smug post

joy orbison made a couple of tunes, he's not a seasoned producer. the hype about hyph mngo was really nothing to do with him, but as a result of it he finds himself the subject of uninformed personal attacks by the worlds best known dance music critic. it's a grim situation.

sure
but its a dichotomy, it's part of an argument that he uses fairly often he did the same in his book.
Everyone forgets he liked big beat and wasnt that into garage etc...

personally i can accept that i might not have the same taste or value system as another person or appreciate what and why they do things, i don't have to act like a dubstep prefect, the posts on here are just as smug in their own way as his proposition anyway.
i can also see what he means with that track, it doesn't appeal to me either, by not liking his tune or thinking his name is crap i'm not personally attacking the guy, get real... he's done some other good ones, shit happens it's not important. chainsaw callgraphy is a great name btw.
and of course it's good he winds people up, love the way you lot can't genuinely believe he likes chainsaw callgraphy more than the joy orbison one, what are you looking for really..

 

[Blackdown]

i'm late to this thread but here's a few thoughts...

calling simon names here is disrespectful, can we 'llow it?

context is important: it's best to bare in mind that simon has pretty much always hated dubstep. which is his perogative of course.

thing is, i agree with mos dan's point: if you have massive, national newspaper-size influence, well beyond our niche blogosphere, you should use it wisely and accurately. the wonKy thing was a shocker (because ketamine and wonky have no real connection) but also buried in the caspa piece was the suggestion that 'wobble is dubstep's only idea'.

i dont know how many ideas dubstep has to have to come up with since '00 until simon accepts them, them but this isn't the point: wobble isn't that soncially original if you've heard any clownstep drum & bass in the last 9 years. consider "Where's My Money (Caspa remix)" as the perfect crossroads example of this marriage made in sonic hell, ripe for the 07 disgruntled d&b-fans-invasion.

as for Hyph Mngo, simon's entitled to hate it if he wants, but the wax doctor diss is wide of the mark. i'm the first person to hate on tepid dubstep as and when it appears, but Hyph is Hype! it's pure rave, warm and bright, an epic like "Pacific State." that a man who bemoaned the dullness of darkness in dubstep and also invented the harcore continuum cant see it's a shining rave anthem... well that is a shame.

re slackk's funky dubstep point, this is kinda the flip of my oneman/hyph mngo/brackles/GA point. it'd be exciting if it were to happen but i worry that many people now see dubstep = wobble. certainly when grime producers do a 'dubstep mix' that's what it is, and the last tune geeneus played at fwd was pretty much wobble-funky (contradiction alert!). (the one before it was that Narrows-funky tune, who is that by?). to my mind Cooly G is pretty dubstep-funky, all space and delays and ballances of light and dark + some fem pressure.

 

[alex]

also this. i mean it's just shit, isnt it? can see how he likes raffertie, cos at least there's some inventiveness there, even if it's misdirected i think. but 16 bit. come on.

on the level I thought it was a joke when It was posted on dsf...