mistersloane
heavy heavy monster sound
check f e t i s h p i x . o r g
They already beat you to it. there's also a german wool fetish site and a corduroy and fustian appreciation society. don't ask me how i know this.
Twees're Good (except they're not)
- Thread starter Ulala
- Start date
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- Tags
- big chill forum 2004
check f e t i s h p i x . o r g
They already beat you to it. there's also a german wool fetish site and a corduroy and fustian appreciation society. don't ask me how i know this.
rubberdingyrapids
Well-known member
i dont care about him enough to listen but isnt ed sheeran half twee/half mockney?
SecondLine
Well-known member
I knew there was a reason why I come on here
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
wolltraum.de!
Still one of the best Fashion SWATs they did on SomethingAwful. We had a photo of the person (child? woman?) in the full-body woolen gimp suit stuck on the fridge door in my old house for years. It's probably still there.
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Ulala
Awkward Woodward
So twees’re not good, then. I suspected as much.
As I write, that Smiths/John Lewis cover is on course to spend a sixth week in the top 40. I can sort of understand people watching the advert on Youtube, affected by the cloying sentimentalism, but actually buying the song and listening to it independently thereof? Eurgh, no. What I think is driving the nu-twee / advertising phenomenon is this – Skinner-style association. This exact thing happened with Ellie Goulding’s ‘Your Song’ last year – icky heart-string pulling advert, cooed over by (largely, let’s face it) women of a certain age who then propel the record chartwards. They like the advert, it makes them feel soppy, the song reminds them of the advert, the song alone comes to trigger the (desired) soppy feeling. Basic determinism. I would vigorously contest the opinion upthread that this is being bought by hipsters – you could argue that it is being created by hipsters, but the target demographic is the same as Adele / Duffy / Mumford / Ellie Goulding – women over 25. Look at the adverts these songs get attached to, they’re usually for cosmetics/clothes shops/lifestyle/interiors. A pretty, soft ditty to match a pretty, aspirational item. The music matches the lifestyle that’s being sold – a clean, safe, unthreatening one free of danger and uncertainty. Witness this recent Matalan advert – they’ve reworked N-Trance’s ‘Set You Free’ into a lilting, gentle ballad (and conspicuously removed the line that mentions ecstasy, natch):
That said, though, this music didn’t just spring into life solely to soundtrack adverts. Much has been said of Belle and Sebastian in this thread, and I apportion no blame to them, though they are plainly one of the key antecedents. I was having a think about it, and I believe Cat Power casts a massive shadow over this whole sound. She was the first, that I can recall, to really popularise this half-sung, half-whispered, coy delivery of lyrics – partly to mask the relatively limited range of her voice (which is perfectly fine, but that’s another argument) and partly because it suited the stripped-back arrangement of her songs. I’d say that she isn’t entirely twee – as with B&S, there’s a bruised, knowing worldly-wise quality to her lyrics – but her infantilised, faux-innocent vocal style was gleefully pounced on and emulated by endless uninspired singer-songwriters/cover version hacks as an excuse to not be able to sing or play that well, and churn out guff. I’d list Feist, Ellie Goulding and even Bat For Lashes as proponents of this cracked, timid vocal style, for instance, all of them feted by the music press, and that critical weight filters through to the ‘creatives’ making decisions about what to use on adverts and so forth. I think that the starting point for this whole trend is this song:
I’m astonished that only Pattycakes has experienced the true horror that is Pomplamoose. The rest of you have got off lightly thus far. This video sums up everything that’s wrong with the nu-twee phenomenon. I’ll let you watch it yourself before I complain at length, good luck if you can make it to the end.
This effortlessly antagonises, it’s as if they’ve deliberately tried to shoehorn in as many death-inviting mannerisms as possible. Removing all the sex and blackness from Beyonce’s original, and grinning gormlessly as you do so, is either guilelessly naïve or an act of bulletproof cuntishness, on the part of both artist and listener. I presume the defence is that “it’s cute and harmless and like, jeez, dude, why are you getting so upset? They’re just having fun!”. Bollocks to that, though. This is like Stepford Wives music – shorn of any threat, sexuality and rough edges. (By rough edges, I mean anything damaged or unsettling – being played shambolicly on cheap instruments does not constitute ‘rough’, it’s so affected and considered.) I don’t see how it is fun, it’s depressing if anything. With all these ‘nu-twee’ songs, and especially the covers, the aim seems to be reducing everything to a cuddly, infantilised, knowingly shambolic, asexual jangle. Obviously these people are aware of other music, hence the cover versions, but it seems that in their eyes, making it cosy and twee makes it better.
I tend to think, especially in the case of Pomplamoose, they must have led a ridiculously cosseted lifestyle of non-stop praise and indulgence to have the sheer brass balls to even consider that this is an acceptable thing to do. The sort of kids who were rewarded with sweets for every half-assed song they sang to Grandma or for every time they did a dance at Christmas, and hence have never been told ‘no’. The coyness, the batted eyelashes, the winsome ‘aren’t I cute?’ preening of the video, ugh. That said, I don’t doubt that they’ve been called cunts to their faces a hundred times over – I certainly would if I ever met them – but it I imagine it just encourages them further. It’s like John Eden said earlier, there’s a kind of aggressive sensitivity at play, a sort of ‘fuck the haters’ expressed by being ever more whimsical and smiley and gentle and cute; and it’s enough to make you set up a fake publishing company purporting to be branching into soundtracks and asking for their address so you can send them royalty cheques and then going round there and raining death from a helicopter gunship until even their dental records are obliterated.
Nearly 9 million people have watched that 'Single Ladies' cover version on Youtube. I weep for the future.
As I write, that Smiths/John Lewis cover is on course to spend a sixth week in the top 40. I can sort of understand people watching the advert on Youtube, affected by the cloying sentimentalism, but actually buying the song and listening to it independently thereof? Eurgh, no. What I think is driving the nu-twee / advertising phenomenon is this – Skinner-style association. This exact thing happened with Ellie Goulding’s ‘Your Song’ last year – icky heart-string pulling advert, cooed over by (largely, let’s face it) women of a certain age who then propel the record chartwards. They like the advert, it makes them feel soppy, the song reminds them of the advert, the song alone comes to trigger the (desired) soppy feeling. Basic determinism. I would vigorously contest the opinion upthread that this is being bought by hipsters – you could argue that it is being created by hipsters, but the target demographic is the same as Adele / Duffy / Mumford / Ellie Goulding – women over 25. Look at the adverts these songs get attached to, they’re usually for cosmetics/clothes shops/lifestyle/interiors. A pretty, soft ditty to match a pretty, aspirational item. The music matches the lifestyle that’s being sold – a clean, safe, unthreatening one free of danger and uncertainty. Witness this recent Matalan advert – they’ve reworked N-Trance’s ‘Set You Free’ into a lilting, gentle ballad (and conspicuously removed the line that mentions ecstasy, natch):
That said, though, this music didn’t just spring into life solely to soundtrack adverts. Much has been said of Belle and Sebastian in this thread, and I apportion no blame to them, though they are plainly one of the key antecedents. I was having a think about it, and I believe Cat Power casts a massive shadow over this whole sound. She was the first, that I can recall, to really popularise this half-sung, half-whispered, coy delivery of lyrics – partly to mask the relatively limited range of her voice (which is perfectly fine, but that’s another argument) and partly because it suited the stripped-back arrangement of her songs. I’d say that she isn’t entirely twee – as with B&S, there’s a bruised, knowing worldly-wise quality to her lyrics – but her infantilised, faux-innocent vocal style was gleefully pounced on and emulated by endless uninspired singer-songwriters/cover version hacks as an excuse to not be able to sing or play that well, and churn out guff. I’d list Feist, Ellie Goulding and even Bat For Lashes as proponents of this cracked, timid vocal style, for instance, all of them feted by the music press, and that critical weight filters through to the ‘creatives’ making decisions about what to use on adverts and so forth. I think that the starting point for this whole trend is this song:
I’m astonished that only Pattycakes has experienced the true horror that is Pomplamoose. The rest of you have got off lightly thus far. This video sums up everything that’s wrong with the nu-twee phenomenon. I’ll let you watch it yourself before I complain at length, good luck if you can make it to the end.
This effortlessly antagonises, it’s as if they’ve deliberately tried to shoehorn in as many death-inviting mannerisms as possible. Removing all the sex and blackness from Beyonce’s original, and grinning gormlessly as you do so, is either guilelessly naïve or an act of bulletproof cuntishness, on the part of both artist and listener. I presume the defence is that “it’s cute and harmless and like, jeez, dude, why are you getting so upset? They’re just having fun!”. Bollocks to that, though. This is like Stepford Wives music – shorn of any threat, sexuality and rough edges. (By rough edges, I mean anything damaged or unsettling – being played shambolicly on cheap instruments does not constitute ‘rough’, it’s so affected and considered.) I don’t see how it is fun, it’s depressing if anything. With all these ‘nu-twee’ songs, and especially the covers, the aim seems to be reducing everything to a cuddly, infantilised, knowingly shambolic, asexual jangle. Obviously these people are aware of other music, hence the cover versions, but it seems that in their eyes, making it cosy and twee makes it better.
I tend to think, especially in the case of Pomplamoose, they must have led a ridiculously cosseted lifestyle of non-stop praise and indulgence to have the sheer brass balls to even consider that this is an acceptable thing to do. The sort of kids who were rewarded with sweets for every half-assed song they sang to Grandma or for every time they did a dance at Christmas, and hence have never been told ‘no’. The coyness, the batted eyelashes, the winsome ‘aren’t I cute?’ preening of the video, ugh. That said, I don’t doubt that they’ve been called cunts to their faces a hundred times over – I certainly would if I ever met them – but it I imagine it just encourages them further. It’s like John Eden said earlier, there’s a kind of aggressive sensitivity at play, a sort of ‘fuck the haters’ expressed by being ever more whimsical and smiley and gentle and cute; and it’s enough to make you set up a fake publishing company purporting to be branching into soundtracks and asking for their address so you can send them royalty cheques and then going round there and raining death from a helicopter gunship until even their dental records are obliterated.
Nearly 9 million people have watched that 'Single Ladies' cover version on Youtube. I weep for the future.
S
simon silverdollar
Guest
i confess i thought you lot were over-reacting on this thread. but now i've seen that pamplamoose video, and yes, you're right. this is evil and must be stopped.
slowtrain
Well-known member
Yeah, Cat Power is much more likely to make you want to drink some whiskey and cry than buy life insurance.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kyKfcNfdLpI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
This is miles away from happy happy eyelash batting cover.
Well, that early stuff anyway, I think the stuff she is doing now might be more up that avenue.
I think the Pampaloose girl is cute.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kyKfcNfdLpI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
This is miles away from happy happy eyelash batting cover.
Well, that early stuff anyway, I think the stuff she is doing now might be more up that avenue.
I think the Pampaloose girl is cute.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
cat power: i know this only because an ex-gf bored me with it once, in a tedious 'i can't believe she sold out' way, but Cat Power was apparently like that (tortured etc) until The Greatest, when she was perceived to have stopped being all tortured and stuff and therefore wasn't real. Or something. I can never find twee as annoying as the need some people have for artists to behave in an incessantly tortured way. Which was to my mind responsible for grunge. Someone has to take the blame.
Are we criticising Bat for Lashes though? I think she's brilliant.
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Trillhouse
Well-known member
Rather than Cat Power, someone like Beth Orton would probably be a better fit. But we're back in the territory of just indicting all music that is vaguely feminine and spoiling the sausagefest. Personally I can enjoy plenty of female folk music, so that's not what I find dislikeable about the nu-twee personified by shlocky adverts and eye gougingly bad youtube videos.
One of the main issues seems to be that this is the level of entertainment that belongs in the parlour, shared with close friends, or singing songs for Grandma, as Ulala put it. Unfortunately the easily available technology & instant culture of the internet, now brings these things to huge audiences. And that's just not right.
To take a rather twee detour.. I remember as a kid watching two older girls who had learnt to sing and play 'More Than Words' by Extreme (an incredibly saccharine bit of softcock wankery, for those young enough to not know it) but when performed by two 14yr old girls, it's finger stylings and close harmonies are still impressive enough.
Now, this was a nice moment. One to be recounted in hope of impressing friends at school the next day. Luckily back then we didn't all have smart phones, facebook and youtube channels thirsty for content. Otherwise I don't doubt it would've become a viral hit, demands for "more" would be met, and eventually there could be recording contracts in the offering.
And that's a major part of why I think the nu-twee is so grating. It takes something that has the kind of evanescent cuteness of a mildly talent child, then forcefully sustains it and elevates it beyond it's station. First by attaching itself to actually legitimate music culture - the endless homemade cover songs. Then by accumulating millions of views on youtube, it in itself becomes enough of a 'thing' and the artistic magpie that is advertising envelopes it further into mainstream culture. The fact that it's whimsically nostalgic, whilst being friendly, homey, instantly relatable but just aspirational enough for the majority of their audience, make it an advertisers wet dream.
One of the main issues seems to be that this is the level of entertainment that belongs in the parlour, shared with close friends, or singing songs for Grandma, as Ulala put it. Unfortunately the easily available technology & instant culture of the internet, now brings these things to huge audiences. And that's just not right.
To take a rather twee detour.. I remember as a kid watching two older girls who had learnt to sing and play 'More Than Words' by Extreme (an incredibly saccharine bit of softcock wankery, for those young enough to not know it) but when performed by two 14yr old girls, it's finger stylings and close harmonies are still impressive enough.
Now, this was a nice moment. One to be recounted in hope of impressing friends at school the next day. Luckily back then we didn't all have smart phones, facebook and youtube channels thirsty for content. Otherwise I don't doubt it would've become a viral hit, demands for "more" would be met, and eventually there could be recording contracts in the offering.
And that's a major part of why I think the nu-twee is so grating. It takes something that has the kind of evanescent cuteness of a mildly talent child, then forcefully sustains it and elevates it beyond it's station. First by attaching itself to actually legitimate music culture - the endless homemade cover songs. Then by accumulating millions of views on youtube, it in itself becomes enough of a 'thing' and the artistic magpie that is advertising envelopes it further into mainstream culture. The fact that it's whimsically nostalgic, whilst being friendly, homey, instantly relatable but just aspirational enough for the majority of their audience, make it an advertisers wet dream.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
that's a very good point. this stuff should be only seen by a close audience in specific circumstances.
No-one's done a twee Let Me Be Your Fantasy yet, have they? That's when the sacrifice must begin.
i think this twee thing is (often, not always) also a misunderstanding of the role of production, texture and ambience within a track, as if all tracks can automatically be reduced to an acoustic singalong without losing anything important.
No-one's done a twee Let Me Be Your Fantasy yet, have they? That's when the sacrifice must begin.
i think this twee thing is (often, not always) also a misunderstanding of the role of production, texture and ambience within a track, as if all tracks can automatically be reduced to an acoustic singalong without losing anything important.
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Great posts from Ulala and Trillhouse there.
Interesting that people should mention female folk singers. My girlfriend's recently been getting me into folk, much of it sung by women. But you listen to Pentangle or Rachel Unthank or something like that, and the lyrics are sung with with real gusto and power and typically deal with love, loss, betrayal, revenge, rape, murder...it's about as twee as Slayer. (OK, so no-one here said folk is inherently twee, was just saying it has a bit of a twee image by association with cardigans and acoustic instruments but can actually be very passionate and dark.)
On the subject of 'ironic' dickless indie covers of ballsy R'n'B and hip-hop tracks, does anyone remember Ten Masked Men? The band specialising in death metal covers of saccharine pop songs...
Heh, it took me a while to realise it was a girl - at first I thought she was a very effeminate boy. But then, as I'm sure you noticed in the Hot New-School Babes thread, I'm not big on androgyny (at least, not when it's the fey, indie sort of androgyny, as opposed to the cool, freaky, David Bowie/Grace Jones kind).
Interesting that people should mention female folk singers. My girlfriend's recently been getting me into folk, much of it sung by women. But you listen to Pentangle or Rachel Unthank or something like that, and the lyrics are sung with with real gusto and power and typically deal with love, loss, betrayal, revenge, rape, murder...it's about as twee as Slayer. (OK, so no-one here said folk is inherently twee, was just saying it has a bit of a twee image by association with cardigans and acoustic instruments but can actually be very passionate and dark.)
On the subject of 'ironic' dickless indie covers of ballsy R'n'B and hip-hop tracks, does anyone remember Ten Masked Men? The band specialising in death metal covers of saccharine pop songs...
Heh, it took me a while to realise it was a girl - at first I thought she was a very effeminate boy. But then, as I'm sure you noticed in the Hot New-School Babes thread, I'm not big on androgyny (at least, not when it's the fey, indie sort of androgyny, as opposed to the cool, freaky, David Bowie/Grace Jones kind).
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computer_rock
Well-known member
let me twee your fantasy
i did find this which for some reason i find hysterically funny:
slowtrain
Well-known member
Oh, I am.
Yes, this is a very interesting thread.
I think that the obnoxious element is essential to twee.
That sort of 'fuck the haters' element someone mentioned up-thread.
It's interesting. My friend's old band might be considered twee, in that they are awkward teenaged females, but I don't think they are, because they do not have that self-aware 'obnoxious' element?
scatterheart
Member
I agree with the OP about the stuff in adverts. Yuk. Also hate all the cloying, over cute, faux naive shit.
For twee to work it has to have a bittersweet element to it and when it's done right it can be my favourite music. Belle and Sab, Cat Power's Moon Pix and the Marine Girls all hit the spot for me. And then there's Camera Obscura - one of my all time favourite bands FOR REAL.
Oh also these;
For twee to work it has to have a bittersweet element to it and when it's done right it can be my favourite music. Belle and Sab, Cat Power's Moon Pix and the Marine Girls all hit the spot for me. And then there's Camera Obscura - one of my all time favourite bands FOR REAL.
Oh also these;
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
Can we actually have a roll-call of twee here? I feel like the concept is pole-vaulting ahead of the reality...
To date, I'm allowing in:
That John Lewis ad
That match.com ad
Cath Kidston
Belle and Sebastian
Juno
Pomplamoose (does anyone else think she looks weirdly like Beck?)
That mobile phone ad with Just Another Diamond Day on it
What else?
To date, I'm allowing in:
That John Lewis ad
That match.com ad
Cath Kidston
Belle and Sebastian
Juno
Pomplamoose (does anyone else think she looks weirdly like Beck?)
That mobile phone ad with Just Another Diamond Day on it
What else?
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Some fucking car ad from a couple of years back with a sountrack of a one-finger piano melody and some drippy tart sing-whispering "When the cars in the street - go beep, beep, beep..." or whatever the cock it was, aargh aargh aargh.
Also Joanna Gruesome, Kate Gash (seewhatIdidthere?)
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
I'm not letting you have Kate Nash. She may be egregiously shit but based on the one song of hers I've heard she isn't twee. Being deliberately slightly slapdash and female isn't enough, there has to be an element of faux-naif sentimentality or willfully over-egged prettiness in there as well.
Joanna Newsome you can have (so as to speak), although she's firmly at the weird / clever / interesting end of things rather than the cynical marketing ploy one.
Joanna Newsome you can have (so as to speak), although she's firmly at the weird / clever / interesting end of things rather than the cynical marketing ploy one.
connect_icut
Well-known member
Haven't really been following this thread - mainly because the bits I did read seemed like electronic dance music fans committing hate speak against indie rockers - but I feel like I should chip in.
This may have been mentioned already but - as far as I can see - twee year zero per se rests with Beat Happening in the States and The Pastels in the UK. Weirdly, I've always loved Beat Happening and rather disliked The Pastels. Somehow, Calvin Johnson's tuneless caterwauling is much more appealing the Stephen Pastel's. Also, despite being outlandishly twee, Beat Happening always managed to rock pretty hard.
This may have been mentioned already but - as far as I can see - twee year zero per se rests with Beat Happening in the States and The Pastels in the UK. Weirdly, I've always loved Beat Happening and rather disliked The Pastels. Somehow, Calvin Johnson's tuneless caterwauling is much more appealing the Stephen Pastel's. Also, despite being outlandishly twee, Beat Happening always managed to rock pretty hard.
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