Doing A PHD/Academic Research In London

[Corpsey]

Not sure if this is the right forum for this but move it if its not.

As a highy disorganised and indecisive person, I'm currently feeling completely confused about what I should do with my life. I did an MA a year ago and I enjoyed the work a lot. My life surrounding the degree unfortunately was fairly empty and I ended up in a state of fairly severe depression, but the work didn't really have much to do with this (other than isolating me in libraries and so on, which was important... but not definitively).

Anyway, I'm quite keen on moving to London next year because I have a lot of friends living there and I'd like to give it a go before I get too old in any case. The thing is I'm not really sure what I should/can do in London - obviously its a case of either getting a job or doing some sort of academic research (an M.Lit or PHD). For various reasons I'm ambiguous about carrying on with academic work - I find it interesting and stimulating and I'm good at it, but I worry about doing it, especially since I expect to be skint all of the time, which is fairly common in London as I understand it but could also be a nightmare.

This is all a roundabout way of asking if anybody here does or has done a PHD/Masters or whatever in London, and how they found the experience, particularly from a financial perspective. Obviously I'm going to contact universities and funding bodies about this but I know there are a lot of London-based academic-types on Dissensus and so it'd be interesting to know how people manage to pay the rent/bills and maintain an active social/cultural life in such an expensive city while studying.

 

[vimothy]

My brother just did one in EE. He got £16k a year tax free--not a bad wage, in my opinion. Don't think he's that much more comfortable now he's on a £30+k but paying taxes postdoc wage.

 

[baboon2004]

Def move to London, first off. If you have lots of friends here, couldn't be anything but a great move, but of course all that depends on having a means of income, so it's not very helpful thing to say on reflection!

As to the rest I just finished a Masters too, so can't comment on the actuality of a PhD, but I considered it briefly and then was really put off, as did a few of my friends from the course. From my point of view, I looked at the people I know who've done one, and almost all of them seemed to be stressed out after the 'honeymoon' period....personally I buzzed off the social discussion elements of my Masters, and the possibility of being unable to discuss my work with all but a very few put me off definitively.

http://www.economist.com/node/17723223 My friend put this up recently on FB (he was one of the ones considering a PhD, and of all those I know, prob the most obviously suited to it - ie doesn't leave things to the last minute, another reason I thought myself an unlikely PhD candidate....). Obv take the subheading with a massive pinch of salt, but seems an interesting take at least.

The financial element - everyone I know seemed to be doing OK, didn't seem to be the source of their worries as much as worries about finishing the thing.

 

[Corpsey]

Thanks Baboon (and Vimothy), I'll read that article. I do have grave doubts about doing it, but I'm so devoid of ideas about what to do otherwise that it appears extremely appealing... which is a terrible reason to do one obviously. I mean, I think I could potentially enjoy doing the work anyway. Another main fear on my bumper list of fears is that its a three year commitment, meaning that I could potentially realised I've [GOB]made a horrible mistake[/GOB] early on and will be stuck forcing myself through the academic meat-mincer for another few years.

It's a very big, very capacious and voluminous pickle.

But yeah, thanks - and keep that advice coming!

 

[computer_rock]

i reckon you should definitely get to london, it's simultaneously the best and the worst place to be if you don't quite know where you're going - lots of opportunities, inspiration etc. but also easy to lose a grip on things and end up 'going under', especially in the current climate i expect. if you've got mates here then there's no excuse tho innit.

you can always think about your phd proposal in the meantime - that's what i've been doing for awhile now. if it's not an idea which you really believe passionately in then it's not gonna be worth the aggro i expect.

 

[Numbers]

On moving to London, I can't comment, as I am not living there.

As for the PhD: if you really enjoyed your studies, you will enjoy doing a PhD. You'll just need to find a way to organize your work/life very well. Esp. in order to steer clear from depressions, burnouts, etc. (which are much more common than people doing a PhD tend to admit). That said, if you go for it, it's one of the most fantastic things to do.

 

[Slothrop]

Alison (my gf) did a PhD in London and it worked okay. Obviously you can't live in a maisonette in Kensington and eat at The Ivy every night but the stipend is enough to get by on if you're happy to house share with other students, be sensible with money on stuff you don't care about much, and generally know how to live a champagne lifestyle at beer-off prices (cf Dissensus misc forum, passim).

PhDs can mean a lot of work and a fair bit of stress, particularly if you want to do enough work to get a proper research job at the end of it and you aren't in a particularly lucrative field, but it doesn't have to take over you life. It's definitely worth it if you're passionate about the subject, and definitely not if you aren't. You're also likely to meet a lot of interesting and intelligent people. My basic experience has been that a PhD doesn't give you enough time and money to do everything you could ever want to do but it gives you enough to do a lot.

The best academic advice I've ever heard is the following:

In a forest a fox bumps into a little rabbit, and says, "Hi, junior, what are you up to?"

"I'm writing a dissertation on how rabbits eat foxes," said the rabbit.

"Come now, friend rabbit, you know that's impossible!"

"Well, follow me and I'll show you."

They both go into the rabbit's dwelling and after a while the rabbit emerges with a satisfied expression on his face.


Along comes a wolf. "Hello, what are we doing these days?"

"I'm writing the second chapter of my thesis, on how rabbits devour wolves."

"Are you crazy? Where is your academic honesty?"

"Come with me and I'll show you." ......

As before, the rabbit comes out with a satisfied look on his face and this time he has a diploma in his paw.

The camera pans back and into the rabbit's cave and, as everybody should have guessed by now, we see an enourmous mean-looking lion sitting next to the bloody and furry remains of the wolf and the fox.

The moral of this story is:

It's not the contents of your thesis that are important --
it's your PhD advisor that counts.

 

[computer_rock]

Saw this today and thought of this thread:

http://matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures/

 

[Corpsey]

I went to London over the weekend for New Year's Eve and its actually one of the first times I've gone and ended up thinking that I'd like to live there. Maybe my seratonin levels had just gone dippy, but I don't think so.

As for the PHD - thanks for all your advice (more wouldn't go amiss of course), I'm going to ring up the AHRC today and email a supervisor at UCL with my rag-tag 'thesis proposal' and see what they say. As far as I can tell by looking at the AHRC website (which I don't really understand 90% of, probably not a good sign) most people end up getting about 15 grand. Since their PDF for maintenance predicts London as at least 16 grand, this seems like another bad sign. But I'm probably reading the signs wrong. Hopefully a phone call will sort things out.

Once I find out how much I might conceivably be able to get I'll report back here and see if it sounds like pittance. I suppose I might just try and work in London for a year or so and see if I still want to do it after that...

 

[you]

Saw this today and thought of this thread:

http://matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures/

that little lump ought to be facing inwards for analytic philosophy phd's tho right?

 

[simon silverdollar]

i did a PhD at UCL a few years ago. financially, i wouldn't worry about it, if you get funding - the tax free £16k from AHRC, plus the many opportunities to earn a bit extra through undergraduate teaching or marking means that you can live pretty comfortably.

But i would make absolutely sure, before starting a PhD, that it's what you definitely want to do. PhD's are incredibly hard - not so much in an intellectual sense (any one who's got a decent undergraduate degree could do one), but in a psychological and emotional sense. After the honeymoon period of the first year and a half, i found mine a real struggle, and psychologically destructive, really - very testing of my emotional stability, and of my close relationships.

The fundamental problem - and i think everyone experiences this, to a greater or lesser degree - is that you're embarked on something that relies on you being almost entirely self motivated, and often working alone, for a long period of time. It's really difficult in that situation not to drift into a kind of stasis, where days blur together, and you feel like you're getting nowhere. Every day is pretty much the same - go to the library, read, and slowly, painfully, piece together a few paragraphs. I've worked in factories and shops, but those jobs didn't involve the same level of monotony - the sheer lack of events - that doing a PhD involves. And because inevitably you're working on something quite obscure, that very few people understand or are interested in, it's both very difficult to ward off feelings of pointlessness, and also to find anyone else to turn to for help.

There's literally about a year of my twenties that i don't remember, except that it was a pretty dark and lonely time - that was the final year of my PhD.

That said, it can be a hugely rewarding experience, and in retrospect and despite it all i'm glad i did it. But from my experience and the people i studied with, i think you are, sad to say, pretty much guarenteed to have at least some dark days if you do a PhD. I think the people who cope best are:

-people whose research involves them working as part of team. Staves off most of the loneliness and feelings of futility.
-people who can switch off at the end of the day, and not think about the PhD when they get home. You have to be good at compartmentalizing otherwise it can be hellish. My constant, persistent background worrying about my PhD ruined at least two holidays.
-Conversely, people who either really, really love their subject (to the point of obsession), or are desperate for an academic career. That helps you get through the inevitable periods where motivation is flagging. (i had neither!)
-people who have taken some time out of academia before starting the PhD, so they have a bit of perspective and appreciate all the great things about being a research student. Coming straight from 5 years consecutive university education, I took all that for granted (being able to take the morning off just because you feel like it, etc).

Sorry to be negative, and i would stress again that most people do, in the end, find their PhD's rewarding. But I found it quite traumatic at the time, and lots of people I know did. I would definitely warn against choosing it as the path of least resistance.

 

[yyaldrin]

I think I lost my girlfriend over a PHD

 

[luka]

get a job where you are working for not much money with economic migrants from all over the world. chose something where there will be young girls to work with make sure your boss is not a cunt. you will have enough money. you will have new friends. you wont have to deal with soppy english people and their weird prissy, mopey ways. dont do a phd, its a waste of time and government money. just do a bit of living instead.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I guess Simon S said most of it pretty well, but anyway:

Make sure you choose a subject you love and can see yourself still loving - or at least tolerating - 4/5 years down the line. I chose my subject badly and consequently got rapidly bogged down with it. I ended up without enough research for a PhD but got an MPhil at least, which I was pissed off about until recently when I started a great new job I wouldn't have been able to get without it. So it was a slog and a lot of heartache but ultimately worth it. Though I still would have enjoyed it a lot more, and perhaps even completed it, if I'd chosen my subject more carefully.

Regarding money, it'll seem like a fortune if you're coming straight from an undergraduate degree although obviously it'll be a step down if you've had a 'proper' job in between. Remember also that you'll have the advantage of student discounts, which can count for a lot - UCL didn't ask for my student card back when I finished and it's save me several hundred quid since then; still got another couple of years on it, in fact. But remember also that (AFAIK) most research councils will only fund you for three years and that people who finish a doctorate in that time are few and far between, so you'll need to think about how you're going to support yourself for the last year or two, or however long it takes you. This will be easier if you've worked a bit and have saved some money or at least paid off your undergrad debts, I guess.

 

[luka]

dont do it. move to london but unless you are severely mentally/emotionally damaged then dont institutionalise yourself. its not manly.

 

[Mr. Tea]

It's a hell of a lot of hard work, for sure, but I think most people I know who've done one don't regret having done it in the long run. It just depends what you want to do.

And I dunno about 'unmanly', if anything I'd say a PhD takes a hell of a lot of balls (or she-balls, depending).

 

[simon silverdollar]

I'd say a PhD takes a hell of a lot of balls (or she-balls, depending).

hmmm, i dunno. it can be a way of prolonging the relative security of adolescence, and avoiding making difficult decisions. i know it was for me. I think this is partly why a lot of academics are a bit weird, as they've lived essentially the same life since they were 18. But that's off-topic...

 

[Mr. Tea]

Yeah, there's that I guess...I dunno, it's hard to call. Yes, you're extending your studenthood but you're also going to be doing something that's probably going to be much more stressful, and much more hard work at least towards the end, than an ordinary job that would pay more.

 

[e/y]

hmmm, i dunno. it can be a way of prolonging the relative security of adolescence...

I think this is why, when I started university, I really wanted to go as far as I could academically. then I realised that I am rather stupid and incredibly undisciplined (as I write this I have two lab reports to finish), so...

*sobs*

 

[baboon2004]

i think Simon's answer is a very good one. Friend of mine did a PhD in a science subject which involved meeting lots of others in lab situations etc and so was fairly social/less of a mindfuck (plus as Tea says, can be very useful in getting a job afterwards, tho in her case it wasn't), whereas from what I've seen arts-type PhDs can often be a bit more lonely cos there's no regular practical situation here you're brought together with other PhD students.

What's your PhD proposal btw, Corpsey, or at least what area is it in (unless I've missed this)?