Tom Waits vs. David Bowie

[woops]

Axioms tell you what can happen not what will happen.

laws, then, damn

 

[IdleRich]

Any issue or kink can be ironed out by tweaking. You can break everything down into steps that can be solved.

This is one of those fundamental divides isn't it? Is there an indivisible moment of magic or not?

 

[woops]

models

 

[woops]

This is one of those fundamental divides isn't it? Is there an indivisible moment of magic or not?

i spose its a magic moment until you start dividing it

 

[woops]

i spose its a magic moment until you start dividing it

hence its fleeting / ephemeral / poetic nature

 

[IdleRich]

laws, then, damn

No mathematical laws say that any particular innovation is inevitable...

 

[IdleRich]

i spose its a magic moment until you start dividing it

But what Catalog identified is a fundamental difference, some people think that there is an ineffable something in the mix somewhere, some believe that if you boil things down and slice them up and put them under the microscope then you will find their secret... and if you don't then just boil a bit more and slice finer.

 

[woops]

i'm starting from the assumption that there is a transcendental moment that can be analysed or not

 

[catalog]

But what Catalog identified is a fundamental difference, some people think that there is an ineffable something in the mix somewhere, some believe that if you boil things down and slice them up and put them under the microscope then you will find their secret... and if you don't then just boil a bit more and slice finer.

Yeah exactly, you put it better

 

[martin]

Just voted for Bowie as I'd rather go for a flower-eating alien nazi dictator than a "Captain Beefheart imitator with zits" ((c) Mark E Smith)

I don't know much by Tom Waits but just get the impression he's on some Lou Reed/Bukowski trip. The barflies he idolises are probably putting Bowie on the jukebox anyway.

 

[catalog]

And that is the point of difference for us as humans isn't it. Some of us need to think that there's more to us than just bits of flesh and blood and cells floating about.

 

[catalog]

Do d&g tackle this, or reach a compromise solution? I feel like they do, but I've not read them enough

 

[woops]

No mathematical laws say that any particular innovation is inevitable...

ha no not inevitable but possible and that innovation might be parthenon-shaped

 

[IdleRich]

Yeah exactly, you put it better

Nah... just spelled it out less elegantly but more literally

 

[woops]

Do d&g tackle this, or reach a compromise solution? I feel like they do, but I've not read them enough

they oppose the flesh and blood positivistic machine to the spiritual creature capable of experiencing moments beyond itself, then state there is no "itself", only the moment beyond

not really i just made that up but probably something like that

 

[IdleRich]

ha no not inevitable but possible and that innovation might be parthenon-shaped

This much is true.

 

[IdleRich]

And that is the point of difference for us as humans isn't it. Some of us need to think that there's more to us than just bits of flesh and blood and cells floating about.

That's why I meant it's one of those fundamental issues... subject/object, freewill/determined etc etc

 

[catalog]

they oppose the flesh and blood positivistic machine to the spiritual creature capable of experiencing moments beyond itself, then state there is no "itself", only the moment beyond

not really i just made that up but probably something like that

This is it though isn't it. We get trapped as humans cos we want there to be something beyond, so there's some meaning in our lives. And we realise there just isn't at various points in our lives.

Then we just make some other shit up to keep going.

Like the amnesia guy in memento.

 

[woops]

the deterministic model is boring as fuck that's why i don't subscribe to it. anything else i'm up for

 

[catalog]

What is the deterministic model?