Corruption, 'Deep Politics', etc.

[Murphy]

Freddie Scap/Stakeknife is a deep one. Ran Internal Security for the Ra looking for infiltration agents, so he was supervising the interrogation and execution of British assets to maintain position/rank. MI5 had to regularly serve him up names for his squad to hunt to hide his identity, he was their highest mole although MacStiofain had to be a rat too intensifying bombing. Ruthless beyond words, so many individual and collective labyrinths. Who were Stakeknife’s handlers (oy oy) in MI5? How many bodies are buried in the case? Does anyone care and if not is this the cost of peace?

Conspiracy as myth is found in thousands of tales, eg The Cattle Raid of Cooley. The first chapter is even titled Pillow Talk as a Queen and her ride hatch plots in a world of rumours and animism. Geasa were nature’s conspiracy theory individualised for you at your birth. Your entire fate coiled around them. Conspiracy as superstition. The further away you move from the remnants of possible or even fictitious events, the more myth reconfigures themes and names to archetype. Facts in the first instance no longer apply

Conspiracy as culture is as old as gossip and every conflict has adapted it to spread disinformation, gain the upper hand on resources, whispered voices in ears, Iago as corporate or guild entity. Do you think there wasn’t conspiracy theory when ancient monuments were being built, when the main currency was stone and people positioned their existence on the control of time? What deep state lay in the continuous cosmos? The constant human need to jockey for position, the insanity of agency

Anyway, that’s more of a stoned thought, conspiracy in the Anglo-Saxon sense as wyrd then realising the linguistic and temporal difference with geasa

 

[luka]

I think if people engage with more and more of this sort of history then it becomes increasingly difficult for them to accept the present at face value. You'd have to believe all of the systems and mechanisms and organisations and forces and beliefs which led to the proven conspiracies you can easily read about just disappeared one day and nothing like that ever happened again. An idea about as ridiculous as believing every single scientist is lying about the Earth being flat.

We know that by to them that means you want to gas the Jews

 

[luka]

Just once again, though, for anybody who is confused by what is going on here: please realise that Luke doesn't actually believe any of this shit or take it seriously at all, and anybody who thinks he does is being fooled. This is why nobody understands where he stands on any of this or why he can't be pinned down. It's because he doesn't stand anywhere and there is absolutely nothing to pin down.

This is true to a degree but I am intensely interested in it for all sorts of other reasons

 

[luka]

And I've talked about this at length and quite earnestly at times

 

[version]

Conspiracy as myth is found in thousands of tales, eg The Cattle Raid of Cooley. The first chapter is even titled Pillow Talk as a Queen and her ride hatch plots in a world of rumours and animism. Geasa were nature’s conspiracy theory individualised for you at your birth. Your entire fate coiled around them. Conspiracy as superstition. The further away you move from the remnants of possible or even fictitious events, the more myth reconfigures themes and names to archetype. Facts in the first instance no longer apply

Conspiracy as culture is as old as gossip and every conflict has adapted it to spread disinformation, gain the upper hand on resources, whispered voices in ears, Iago as corporate or guild entity.

I liked The Tempest when I read it in school. Tom McCarthy goes on about surveillance and radio and communications networks re: Hamlet and The Tempest. He likes to cite Caliban's bit about the air being full of noises,

Be not afeard; the isle is full of noises,
Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight, and hurt not.
Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
Will hum about mine ears; and sometime voices,
That, if I then had waked after long sleep,
Will make me sleep again: and then, in dreaming,
The clouds methought would open, and show riches
Ready to drop upon me; that, when I waked,
I cried to dream again.

 

[Murphy]

Ta. On nights so that’s dinner-breakfast covered

 

[version]

I'm curious about Chile. I know there was a coup in '73 and Allende allegedly killed himself or was murdered, but that's about it. I've got that Costa-Gavras film, Missing, so I'll give that a watch sometime soon, but I assume there's gonna be a bunch of holes in it, if he deals with the wider history at all, given the nature of film and the movie business.

This is interesting,

Project Cybersyn - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Murphy]

Page twenty three. Cities of the Red Night has it where critical junctures in the Americas are unfolding and through what means - esoteric subverted realpolitik. Which characters seep into overlapping realities, a hotel room window veil caught in a rare South American breeze, so much escalating atmosphere you can never quite hold or grasp the totality of its language

It oozes a strange perspiration, mostly jizz

 

[luka]

the view of both Marxists and Liberals is that although this stuff is true it doesn't do to dwell on it. It's 'a distraction'. From what I don't quite know.

 

[luka]

A distraction from being righteously and blamelessly bored presumably

 

[luka]

No one can can keep a secret they tell you while discussing spy cops who lived double lives for decades on another thread. Interesting psychology.

 

[version]

Page twenty three. Cities of the Red Night has it where critical junctures in the Americas are unfolding and through what means - esoteric subverted realpolitik. Which characters seep into overlapping realities, a hotel room window veil caught in a rare South American breeze, so much escalating atmosphere you can never quite hold or grasp the totality of its language

It oozes a strange perspiration, mostly jizz

That Project Cybersyn page actually mentions them using stuff from the Burroughs Corporation,

"Cybersyn first ran on an IBM 360/50, but later was transferred to a less heavily used Burroughs 3500 mainframe."

 

[version]

No one can can keep a secret they tell you while discussing spy cops who lived double lives for decades on another thread. Interesting psychology.

That secret has come out though, hence us knowing about them.

 

[luka]

Danny Casolaro - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Joseph Daniel Casolaro (June 16, 1947 – August 10, 1991) was an American freelance writer who came to public attention in 1991 when he was found dead in a bathtub in room 517 of the Sheraton Hotel in Martinsburg, West Virginia, his wrists slashed 10–12 times. The medical examiner ruled the death a suicide.[1]

 

[luka]

That secret has come out though, hence us knowing about them.

All of them? And how long were the secrets kept?

 

[thirdform]

Right, but is that a particularly useful observation? Can't we take it as read that when we say disaster, that's what we mean?

It's useful insofar as disasters are not isolated happenings. E.G: shoddy constructing of housing during an earthquake. How much is that natural and how much is a disaster?

 

[thirdform]

I don't think he believes it either. I do think part of him enjoys seeing it fuck up society though. He's said as much. Schadenfreude.

Don't we all though? We just personalise it tories, and the like. Humanity cannot be liberated from its animalistic instincts - this was darwins great insight. At a base level we defecate, procreate and dominate. civilisation is merely the tempering and domesticating of those instincts, not their eradication, which would mean we have to stop existing.

 

[Murphy]

 

[thirdform]

the view of both Marxists and Liberals is that although this stuff is true it doesn't do to dwell on it. It's 'a distraction'. From what I don't quite know.

Liberals, because it's uncouth and uncultured, which I find endlessly amusing.

Marxists, because its not scientific. All good myth requires good science.

 

[thirdform]

A distraction from being righteously and blamelessly bored presumably

Ah, see you display your ignorance here. Boredom is always counter-revolutionary - guy debord 1962. The problem is the conspiracy theory worldview itself is boring. It admits defeat, because it claims that the conspirators always have access to their resistance at each and every time. It is the modern conspiracy theoretician who possesses a lack of imagination, because she cannot envisage the conspiracy being known, as her egoistic enlightenment will henceforth disappear.