The Republican War on Transgender People, Drag Queens, and Queerness in General

[padraig (u.s.)]

btw I'm perfectly fine with padrage. I'm all about it, actually. thanks to whoever coined it.

the world is literally on fire, white supremacists and fascists are falling out of every corner to spew their poison, who knows if American democracy will survive another election cycle. 60 people just got hit with RICO charges for opposing the construction of a giant militarized police facility.

if you're not angry I don't know what the hell is wrong with you

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I'll end with this to tie it all back in

You know who's on the same side as TERF/GC? As I said, every single Neonazi (as well as of course, the original Nazis, who burned the world's first sexology research center in 1933), every single toxic manosphere would-be Andrew Tate, every tradbro, every evangelical Christian and other religious fanatic, every 2nd-right wing grifter (Michael Knowles, Tim Pool etc), and of course, Elon Musk, whose most recent thing is resorting to blaming Jews - always gets there sooner or later - for his self-immolation of Twitter. That's your team. Kellie Jay Keen and Matt Walsh. The guy that just murdered a cis straight woman for flying an LGBTQ flag at her store. Libs of Tik Tok, who specializes in getting her followers to call in bomb threats to middle school libraries. I could go on for a long, long time. I don't see any of you complaining about any of that, ever.

I also don't see anyone responding to the detailed breakdown I gave of how the GC movement, the opposite of widespread, is a tight-knit, incestuous clique of NGOs that are basically the same 7 people rehashing the same self-invented lies. Or how the anti-trans legislative assault was deliberately concocted by right-wing strategists - as described in their own words - to rally their base after they realized gay marriage was a dead issue. Presumably because none of you can respond to it, or any other facts. All you can do is rehash the same fearmongering nonsense about children and bathrooms and the wokeocracy.

Absolute fucking trash.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

oh actually, one last thing

breast enhancement surgery for cis teenagers is 26 times* as common as gender-affirming surgery of all kinds for trans minors. 26 times! Feel free to look it up.

cis minors get elective gender-affirming surgery - also including rhinoplasty, male breast reduction, etc - all the time.

again, not a single solitary peep out of "we shouldn't listen to minors/they can't consent to gender-affirming care" crowd

it's not about protecting children, it's just about policing trans bodies

*overall, not per capita, before someone goes there. point still stands.

 

[subvert47]

thanks to jenks @DannyL @sufi @subvert47 @thirdform for standing up against this tidal wave of bullshit in my absence

But it's good to see you back, taking out all the garbage ❤️

I'm afraid it's too personal to me to post anything other than very occasionally. I mostly have to ignore it.

 

[maxi]

See upthread. Ireland, New Zealand, Finland, Denmark, Argentina, Malta, etc all have self-ID. None have experienced a wave of sexual assault. It's a bullshit scare tactic.

no it isn't and it's not just about assault it's about privacy and dignity as i said

 

[maxi]

also, as always, the claim that transphobes are motivated by care for children or the supposed sexualization of children rather than yunno, transphobia, is revealed as total bullshit by the fact that they are totally silent about the rampant sexualization of children in things like child beauty pageants etc, and surgeries done on intersex infants and children which, unlike gender-affirming care, are totally nonconsensual

things which, you may notice, reinforce rather than challenge the gender binary

they're not silent on those things though

 

[maxi]

The idea that someone would transition in order to get access to a women's bathroom to commit sexual assault is so dumb and absurd that it could only be held by people who have never, yunno, talked to an actual trans person.

that's not the claim though is it. the danger's from men who can enter unchallenged due to self-ID. it's not that complicated. not that bathrooms are the main issue

 

[maxi]

I'll end with this to tie it all back in

You know who's on the same side as TERF/GC? As I said, every single Neonazi (as well as of course, the original Nazis, who burned the world's first sexology research center in 1933), every single toxic manosphere would-be Andrew Tate, every tradbro, every evangelical Christian and other religious fanatic, every 2nd-right wing grifter (Michael Knowles, Tim Pool etc), and of course, Elon Musk, whose most recent thing is resorting to blaming Jews - always gets there sooner or later - for his self-immolation of Twitter. That's your team. Kellie Jay Keen and Matt Walsh. The guy that just murdered a cis straight woman for flying an LGBTQ flag at her store. Libs of Tik Tok, who specializes in getting her followers to call in bomb threats to middle school libraries. I could go on for a long, long time. I don't see any of you complaining about any of that, ever.

I also don't see anyone responding to the detailed breakdown I gave of how the GC movement, the opposite of widespread, is a tight-knit, incestuous clique of NGOs that are basically the same 7 people rehashing the same self-invented lies. Or how the anti-trans legislative assault was deliberately concocted by right-wing strategists - as described in their own words - to rally their base after they realized gay marriage was a dead issue. Presumably because none of you can respond to it, or any other facts. All you can do is rehash the same fearmongering nonsense about children and bathrooms and the wokeocracy.

Absolute fucking trash.

bad faith guilt by association tactics. typical american view cos of your warped polarised politics

 

[maxi]

oh actually, one last thing

breast enhancement surgery for cis teenagers is 26 times* as common as gender-affirming surgery of all kinds for trans minors. 26 times! Feel free to look it up.

cis minors get elective gender-affirming surgery - also including rhinoplasty, male breast reduction, etc - all the time.

again, not a single solitary peep out of "we shouldn't listen to minors/they can't consent to gender-affirming care" crowd

it's not about protecting children, it's just about policing trans bodies

*overall, not per capita, before someone goes there. point still stands.

you don't see the difference between surgery that affects fertility or prevents the ability to ever have an orgasm - and a nosejob? terrible argument

 

[HMGovt’s Glorious Return!]

You know who's on the same side as TERF/GC? As I said, every single Neonazi (as well as of course, the original Nazis, who burned the world's first sexology research center in 1933), every single toxic manosphere would-be Andrew Tate, every tradbro, every evangelical Christian and other religious fanatic, every 2nd-right wing grifter (Michael Knowles, Tim Pool etc), and of course, Elon Musk, whose most recent thing is resorting to blaming Jews - always gets there sooner or later - for his self-immolation of Twitter. That's your team. Kellie Jay Keen and Matt Walsh. The guy that just murdered a cis straight woman for flying an LGBTQ flag at her store. Libs of Tik Tok, who specializes in getting her followers to call in bomb threats to middle school libraries. I could go on for a long, long time. I don't see any of you complaining about any of that, ever.

I also don't see anyone responding to the detailed breakdown I gave of how the GC movement, the opposite of widespread, is a tight-knit, incestuous clique of NGOs that are basically the same 7 people rehashing the same self-invented lies. Or how the anti-trans legislative assault was deliberately concocted by right-wing strategists - as described in their own words - to rally their base after they realized gay marriage was a dead issue. Presumably because none of you can respond to it, or any other facts. All you can do is rehash the same fearmongering nonsense about children and bathrooms and the wokeocracy.

Absolute fucking trash.

Just leave the kids alone, Pat. Having a Pedo POTUS and a fancy new flag has given you lot some right funny notions.

Is there not some local forum you could haunt with your vituperative advocacy for autogynephilic narcissism?
Perhaps you need Jesus or Allah in your life. Also, open your heart to Trump.

 

[Mr. Tea]

no it isn't and it's not just about assault it's about privacy and dignity as i said

Whose privacy and dignity is being compromised here, though? Nobody's advocating getting rid of bathroom stalls. Are women really so fragile that the mere thought of using the toilet a few metres away from a trans woman is existentially distressing, even though neither person can see the other?

 

[Mr. Tea]

Just leave the kids alone, Pat. Having a Pedo POTUS and a fancy new flag has given you lot some right funny notions.

Is there not some local forum you could haunt with your vituperative advocacy for autogynephilic narcissism?
Perhaps you need Jesus or Allah in your life. Also, open your heart to Trump.

Just in case there was any doubt, you really are an absolutely world-class shithead.

 

[HMGovt’s Glorious Return!]

Whose privacy and dignity is being compromised here, though? Nobody's advocating getting rid of bathroom stalls. Are women really so fragile that the mere thought of using the toilet a few metres away from a trans woman is existentially distressing, even though neither person can see the other?

I think it’s when they get poorly timed erections hoisting up their frocks.

Just in case there was any doubt, you really are an absolutely world-class shithead.

LOL. Now go out an do a poll on this topic on any British high street, or any street anywhere in the world, and take note of what 99.5% of people tell you.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I think it’s when they get poorly timed erections hoisting up their frocks.

LOL. Now go out an do a poll on this topic on any British high street, or any street anywhere in the world, and take note of what 99.5% of people tell you.

You think most British people subscribe to your "pedo potus" gibberish? You've spent so long plumbing the sewers of the US online far right that you've taken it for reality, you fucking loser.

 

[Mr. Tea]

You're stanning for the guy who openly fantasises about fucking his own daughter, and in all probability literally has. So if anyone here is pro-paedo, it's you.

 

[maxi]

Whose privacy and dignity is being compromised here, though? Nobody's advocating getting rid of bathroom stalls. Are women really so fragile that the mere thought of using the toilet a few metres away from a trans woman is existentially distressing, even though neither person can see the other?

one thing often brought up by transactivists is the fact that passing transwomen have been using bathrooms for decades unchallenged anyway, and it's never really been a problem. I agree with that

that's not the issue - it's the change to self-ID which alters the social contract and means that any man can enter unchallenged. women are concerned about men who will exploit that. not transwomen necessarily. men will already do that occassionally, but until now a woman can say 'what the fuck are you doing in here'. but self-ID and associated conventions mean that it's taboo to even challenge a man who enters - because you don't have to be passing to be trans. any guy with a beard, or no attempt to look like a woman whatsoever, can potentially be trans for all anyone knows. that's what 'self-ID' means.

bathrooms are the most publicised but not the only thing. all sex-segregated spaces that would be essentially turned into unisex spaces

e.g. rape crisis centers, homes for abused women. in places like that, women may well be extremely distressed by the presence of any man. that's why women-only places like that exist in the first place. I think it's fair enough that they should be allowed to keep it female only. so no transwomen or any men in general.

the bad faith activists like to characterise it as fearmongering about what transwomen will do. but in the case of rape crisis centers, the transwomen who want to enter I'm sure are just as traumatised and in need of the clinic as the women, and have no bad intentions. but the women inside want to only be around women during their stay. that's their prerogative

it's telling that transactivists have spent little time organising for their own spaces rather than demanding entry to women's ones

 

[Mr. Tea]

one thing often brought up by transactivists is the fact that passing transwomen have been using bathrooms for decades unchallenged anyway, and it's never really been a problem. I agree with that

that's not the issue - it's the change to self-ID which alters the social contract and means that any man can enter unchallenged. women are concerned about men who will exploit that. not transwomen necessarily. they already do occassionally, but until now a woman can say 'what the fuck are you doing in here'. but self-ID and associated conventions mean that it's taboo to even challenge a man who enters - because you don't have to be passing to be trans. any guy with a beard, or no attempt to look like a woman whatsoever, can potentially be trans. that's what 'self-ID' means.

bathrooms are the most publicised but not the only thing. all sex-segregated spaces that would be essentially turned into unisex spaces

e.g. rape crisis centers, homes for abused women. in places like that, women may well be extremely distressed by the presence of any man. that's why women-only places like that exist in the first place. I think it's fair enough that they should be allowed to keep it female only. so no transwomen or any men in general.

the bad faith activists like to characterise it as fearmongering about what transwomen will do. but in the case of rape crisis centers, the transwomen who want to enter I'm sure may are just as traumatised and in need of the clinic as the women, and have no bad intentions. but the women inside want to only be around women during their stay. that's their prerogative

it's telling that transactivists have spent little time organising for their own spaces rather than demanding entry to women's ones

But as P has already said:

See upthread. Ireland, New Zealand, Finland, Denmark, Argentina, Malta, etc all have self-ID. None have experienced a wave of sexual assault. It's a bullshit scare tactic.

If laws like this have already been brought in in other countries, and this has not led to a tidal wave of rapacious cis men going into women's toilets to go on a rape spree and saying "I'm a woman, fuck off" when challenged, then why would this suddenly be the case in the UK? Why would it happen in one specific country when it hasn't happened in all the others where it's been tried?

 

[maxi]

the nature of safeguarding measures is that they protect against the worst case scenario. not against the most likely scenario. there wouldn't need to be a tidal wave of sexual assault for safeguarding measures to be worthwhile. having women-only spaces in society is a safeguarding measure.

another safeguarding measure is the use of background checks on people who are applying for jobs in which they would work with children, in schools or wherever. because of pedophiles obviously. if they removed those background checks overnight, there wouldn't be a widespread wave of pedophiles getting into the school system. that doesn't mean that the safeguarding measure isn't extremely important

that argument doesn't fly

 

[Mr. Tea]

the nature of safeguarding measures is that they protect against the worst case scenario. not against the most likely scenario. there wouldn't need to be a tidal wave of sexual assault for safeguarding measures to be worthwhile. having women-only spaces in society is a safeguarding measure.

Part of the problem here is that the vast, vast majority of services for victims of domestic abuse are intended only for use by cis women. If you're worried about trans women and/or cis men using services where they'll be in the same space as cis women, then presumably a better answer would be an expansion of such services to recognise that anyone, whether male or female, cis or trans, gay or straight, could be a victim of this kind of abuse and might need help.

another safeguarding measure is the use of background checks on people who are applying for jobs in which they would work with children, in schools or wherever. because of pedophiles obviously. if they removed those background checks overnight, there wouldn't be a widespread wave of pedophiles getting into the school system. that doesn't mean that the safeguarding measure isn't extremely important

that argument doesn't fly

But who is saying "let's abolish background checks in the case of trans women"? That sounds like a massive strawman and just another example of the now familiar right-wing association between trans people and paedophiles.

 

[maxi]

But who is saying "let's abolish background checks in the case of trans women"? That sounds like a massive strawman and just another example of the now familiar right-wing association between trans people and paedophiles.

no one is saying that, you misunderstand me entirely. there's no association drawn whatsoever. I'm just trying to illustrate what a safeguarding measure is by using another example of one, to show that they are in place to protect against the worst case scenario, not the most likely scenario