Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...
- Thread starter Mr. Tea
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Sure, but I think it's clear by now that Israel doesn't give a rat's ass about international public opinion. They don't even care what Americans think of them as long as the military aid keeps coming, and that looks like it's not going to dry up any time soon. Quite the opposite, in fact.
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
Who are they?
vimothy
yurp
I dont think that's quite true, actually. it seems that america has managed to moderate the response--holding off a ground invasion until humanitarian aid can be brought to bear on Gaza--and piss off Israeli public opinion, which wonders why its leaders are allowing america to shape its actions at a time of crisis.
hmg
Victory lap
Funnily enough, I opened a leveraged long position around the time you posted that, a little below where those dotted lines meet, and now I'm up 537%!
Don't worry, I already took profit that more than covers the original collateral, so it's gains from now on.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
hmg
Victory lap
It's not that exciting, but you do you.
vimothy
yurp
would you prefer that there were no hope of humanitarian assistance? of course not. but that's the situ that would prevail absent international involvement.
hmg
Victory lap
Israel is fucked long term, their only card is nuclear weapons, because demographically it's over. All their allies have sizeable, young, restive Muslim populations that would gladly trash their adopted countries if those countries paid anything more than lip service to Israel’s right to exist. Europe is pebbled-dashed with Gazas.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Except 'international involvement' includes billions of US$ in military aid every year since forever, doesn't it? I mean Israel wouldn't exist in the first place if not for 'international involvement'. So it cuts both ways.
hmg
Victory lap
10s of millions of poorly-integrated Muslims in Europe also make it *interesting*. The authorities seem incapable of containing them. It's not the 1950s where they can be bulldozed into the Seine off camera.
vimothy
yurp
states dont just disappear on their basis of having or not having aid from the us. yes, international involvement was key to he birth of israel, but its not going to just neatly roll itself up and go away if its us aid is cut
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
No, but it might behave differently if it knew there was a serious possibility of that aid being reduced, or cut off altogether. It may not be acting in the way that the most hard-line members of either the government, the military or the general public would like - which is to say, to give every square metre of Gaza the Tokyo '45 treatment - so yes, in that extremely bare sense, the response has been 'moderated'. But I think it's fair to say Israel has only been able to behave in the way that it has because it's benefited from the USA's apparently unconditional support since the country's inception.
vimothy
yurp
I think the problem is a bit more prosaic. israel has nukes - what will it take for them to use them? war with iran, where it considers itself to be threatened existential? who is actually in charge of the nukes? Israel is obvs at a point of high pressure in which it's easy to imagine mistakes being made. mistakes are being made, in fact, right now. perhaps this is one explanation for the presence of all of these us air craft carriers in the media - to prevent *israeli* nuclear escalation.