J. H. Prynne

[luka]

tomorrow buy 3 bottles of whisky and 3 bottles of rum so this never occurs again

 

[luka]

let me give you some advice benny an alcoholic ensures they run out of alcohol as a means of self preservation.
a drinker never allows that to happen. which do you want to be? a pisshead or a drinker?

 

[luka]

my opinion its better to be a drinker and in control of your decisions. that means always having the option to drink more. to the point of passing out. that should always be an option. but it's your life. you choose.

 

[luka]

addict or bon vivant?

 

[luka]

@China Fiberfuture

 

[sus]

sifting sediment

ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *(s)twerH-, *(s)turH- (“to rotate, swirl, twirl, move around”).

@sus

I've been working through this and the Prelude thread actually but it's really slow. There's a lot to take in. A lot I need to come to understand.

 

[Benny Bunter]

.

View attachment 21305

Earthy Anecdote

Every time the bucks went clattering
Over Oklahoma
A firecat bristled in the way.

Wherever they went,
They went clattering,
Until they swerved,
In a swift, circular line,
To the right,
Because of the firecat.

Or until they swerved,
In a swift, circular line,
To the left,
Because of the firecat.

The bucks clattered.
The firecat went leaping,
To the right, to the left,
And
Bristled in the way.

Later, the firecat closed his bright eyes
And slept.

 

[Benny Bunter]

grow giddy heart our tempest agree

From the prelude thread

Search results for query: Giddy

mid that giddy bliss
Which, like a tempest, works along the blood
And is forgotten;

 

[Benny Bunter]

"Alpine" also suggests the Prelude was very much in Prynne's mind here, as it often is - WW's formative trip to the Alps in 1790.

"Born" "grow" - Growth of a Poet's Mind being the alternative title given to the Prelude, and its main theme.

 

[Benny Bunter]

From WW's Tintern Abbey (a poem Prynne loves and has written about)

Sensations sweet,
Felt in the blood, and felt along the heart,

 

[Benny Bunter]

Perhaps even worn up free elude suggests Prelude

 

[Benny Bunter]

Oh!

 

[Benny Bunter]

We ran a boisterous course; the year span round
With giddy motion.

 

[Benny Bunter]

The line break at dis-
turbed means he wants us to think of the separate elements.

dis-​

word-forming element of Latin origin meaning 1. "lack of, not" (as in dishonest); 2. "opposite of, do the opposite of" (as in disallow); 3. "apart, away" (as in discard), from Old French des- or directly from Latin dis- "apart, asunder, in a different direction, between,"

turbid (adj.)​

"muddy, foul with extraneous matter, thick, not clear," 1620s, from Latin turbidus "muddy, full of confusion," from turbare "to confuse, bewilder," from turba "turmoil, crowd," which is of uncertain origin.

Related to disturb, trouble, turbine. Used of liquids having the lees disturbed, later also of colors, and extended to "confused, disorderly" (1640s). Middle English medical writing used turbide (adj.) "impaired, afflicted by illness" (early 15c.).

 

[Benny Bunter]

youve let me down ben

I think I've redeemed myself.

 

[Benny Bunter]

More from the prelude alluded to in the Prynne poem, from the Alpine excursion section - Cambridge and the Alps

The dangerous craft of culling term and phrase
From languages that want the living voice
To carry meaning to the natural heart;
To tell us what is passion, what is truth,
What reason, what simplicity and sense.

 

[Benny Bunter]

maybe some sense of flow-lock
movement ossified into rock
eg fluent lock
those kind of paradoxes

The whole of the alpine trip in the Prelude is like this - a journey through the mountains with all its flows, torrents, halting-places, crags, rocks, blockages in the path etc

 

[Benny Bunter]

The only track now visible was one
That from the torrent's further brink held forth
Conspicuous invitation to ascend a lofty mountain.

 

[okzharp]

Love this bit from The Prelude... when he meets the mountain

The horizon's bound, a huge peak, black and huge,
As if with voluntary power instinct,
Upreared its head.

Motion in the rock. The flow bereft.

Prynne's long now. The sublime present continuous. Awe.

Inlet is met by age passion.

Mortality? Feeling alive when confronting or contemplating death?

 

[Benny Bunter]

I've been working through this and the Prelude thread actually but it's really slow. There's a lot to take in. A lot I need to come to understand.

With you I get the impression that you're coming at it in the wrong way, reading around the subject before you actually read the prime source material. I mean, it's good to read around it, but there's no substitute for reading the poems themselves and gauging your own reaction to them - and the more widely you read from the tradition, the more allusions you spot and you start to get a feel for the context, what is continuing and what is breaking with the tradition and creating something new, and become more able to make value judgements.

You're a lot cleverer than I am and a really good writer (unlike me), so there's absolutely no reason why you couldn't be a lot more insightful than me, it's just I've read a lot more poetry than you have. I still find most of it really difficult, but it just gets easier the more you read.

Luka will probably tell you something totally different, but that's what I think, since you asked me about it in the Prelude thread.