Trim - Soulfood

[elgato]

Trim's success is not more important than the long term sustainability of this genre of music as a whole.

Anyone who says they are not a Grime artist when they earn all their money from rime and get all their promotion from Grime is lost.

And the Grauniad and OMM can both suck my hairy beanbag.

obviously its about the whole rather than the individual, but do you not think theres a degree to which too strong an idea/identity of 'grime' and 'the grime scene' (and too rigid an approach to what constitutes authenticity, which often comes hand in hand, and which ive seen bandied around a lot) is going to work against its success/sustainability both musically and financially? especially given how many negative associations the press have blessed the name with

also, and i dont mean to be aggressive here, please dont take it as such, but you chat about PR nightmares then publicly insult a major press outlet... i dont rate them much either, i can understand the frustration, but surely that kind of thing isnt gonna help?

 

[john eden]

they can think of a number and suck their mum times that

and then divide it by two and suck their dad times that, I reckon.

 

[john eden]

Seems to me that stems from him just being a heavy MC.. even if your income is based on participation in a scene it doesn't seem to me like he owes that scene anything. Just like Dizzee has a right to do what he likes, even if the result is swag.

It's a bit short-sighted. Logan is correct about the long term sustainability of the genre (which still allows the genre to mutate). It's scenius vs genius again.

 

[Logan Sama]

obviously its about the whole rather than the individual, but do you not think theres a degree to which too strong an idea/identity of 'grime' and 'the grime scene' (and too rigid an approach to what constitutes authenticity, which often comes hand in hand, and which ive seen bandied around a lot) is going to work against its success/sustainability both musically and financially? especially given how many negative associations the press have blessed the name with

also, and i dont mean to be aggressive here, please dont take it as such, but you chat about PR nightmares then publicly insult a major press outlet... i dont rate them much either, i can understand the frustration, but surely that kind of thing isnt gonna help?

Why, were they going to write about Grime loads if I didn't insult them?

No

And I have never said he can't do other types of music, but when Vybz Kartel fucks with hip hop he does so as a Dancehall artist. Trim IS a Grime artist whether he likes it or not, and the more acts who actually acknowledge this and stop using their 30 seconds of fame to give their opinion on whether they like the name Grime or not, the better off everyone would be.

Grime has a bad name in the press because even it's own artists badmouth it. And besides, it isn't Grime that has a bad name in the press, it is groups of black youths from inner city areas who carry knives and wear nothing but tracksuits. So if they don't want to be grouped in with them they should stop carrying tools and try to dress up when they perform, rather than moaning about a name which perfectly suits this music.

 

[UFO over easy]

It's a bit short-sighted. Logan is correct about the long term sustainability of the genre (which still allows the genre to mutate).

With Trim I guess he could just be out for personal success - doesn't sound like he cares much about the sustainability of the scene to be honest. That might be short sighted but only if you think the grime scene can do more to help Trim than Trim can do to help himself if he jumps ship...

But then maybe he's saying something deeper - could be he just thinks grime is an inadequate description of what him and his peers are doing.

Regardless, I personally think grime is a wicked name. way better than dubstep anyway.

 

[elgato]

yeh logan i can see what you're saying, and i agree with it to some degree. its a much more practical perspective than mine (as one would expect!), mine is more instinctive. on an intuitive level i hate music being pinned into boxes for marketing, and i appreciate an artistic sentiment which rejects that. but in this context i can definately see your point

 

[Logan Sama]

Grime is the name given to the culture and surroundings which your music springs from. Artists should embrace that culture. to me it smacks of the impossible dream a lot of these kids have to be on the sae level as 50 Cent and be millionaires without any realistic sustainable middle ground of just being comfortable financially.

To paraphrase Fight Club, they are a generation of kids raised by television who believe they can all be millionaires and rap stars. They will slowly realise it isn't the case

 

[elgato]

you reckon thats what this is about? to me it sounds more like him being irritated by being pinned into a box, and also the association with so many unimaginative beats and lyrics. but i know less about it/him than you so...

 

[viktorvaughn]

I don't really understand the reluctance of people to embrace the Grime tag. Wiley was shouting for ages about how he it was eski not grime. I know Grime now has lots of negative connotations, but if the media and the artists together embraced the name and tried to revitalise it with a bit of a better image (like Logan was saying) that would be good.

Trim is a Grime artist. We all know and understand the term Grime as dark garage-spawn. Trim does make grime, he is kidding himself.

 

[mos dan]

phew. just caught up with the last few pages of this thread. few points:

*the guardian will never find out what logan says about them on an internet forum, much less care. they're hardly going to cancel their 40-page grime spread as a result.

*logan's right about the p.r. nightmare bit - if grime's strongest artists don't want to be 'grime', even though they make grime, and derive all of their success and musical inspiration from grime, then what hope is there?

I know Grime now has lots of negative connotations, but if the media and the artists together embraced the name and tried to revitalise it with a bit of a better image (like Logan was saying) that would be good.

*i think this can and will start happening. the institutions that support the scene are slowly forming - more labels, more stars, more regular nights, and hopefully a bit of a resurgence in both (a) mainstream releases, and (b) media coverage in 07.

what's more, we DO need the word 'grime'. we need to use it all the fucking time, and we need it to mean something more contemporary and relevant than 'that music that that bloke dizzee rascal used to make a few years ago'. i'm working on it.

*air to trim. muppet.

 

[bun-u]

I don't really understand the reluctance of people to embrace the Grime tag. Wiley was shouting for ages about how he it was eski not grime. I know Grime now has lots of negative connotations, but if the media and the artists together embraced the name and tried to revitalise it with a bit of a better image (like Logan was saying) that would be good.

Trim is a Grime artist. We all know and understand the term Grime as dark garage-spawn. Trim does make grime, he is kidding himself.

I think it's fair to say that Wiley was calling it 'eski' before the 'grime' tag stuck. In fact the naming was so belated (2004?) you'd forgive alot of it's protaganists for not having any ownership of it. I get the feeling we'll have a new name before long but it will still be describing essentially the same scene...and I'm not too bothered about names and branding per se.

 

[benjybars]

skepta knows how to rep grime!

"all i can say, if you're from England and you don't make grime then.....safe. pussy."

i think trim was just saying it's a bit of a shit name rather than trying to completlely distance himself from the scene..

and to be fair grime sounds NUFF different now than when it first started to actually be called grime

 

[viktorvaughn]

I think it's fair to say that Wiley was calling it 'eski' before the 'grime' tag stuck. In fact the naming was so belated (2004?) you'd forgive alot of it's protaganists for not having any ownership of it. I get the feeling we'll have a new name before long but it will still be describing essentially the same scene...and I'm not too bothered about names and branding per se.

Yeah definately. I guess at that point 'grimey garage', 'eskibeat', 'sublow', '8-bar' and god knows what else were all in the mix.

But I always got the impression that even after the term grime started to gain everyday currency (albeit at first coined by journos) and it was obvious to everyone that grime was what the dark vocal garage variant had coalesced into William still kept the Eski flag flying.

It's understandable really i suppose - imagine getting a snow-kat and calling it Jim and then a little later the world telling you it was actually called Sampson and having to change the name you gave it to fit in with everyone else!

 

[viktorvaughn]

what's more, we DO need the word 'grime'. we need to use it all the fucking time, and we need it to mean something more contemporary and relevant than 'that music that that bloke dizzee rascal used to make a few years ago'. i'm working on it.

When people (ok, men) ask me the inevitable question 'So what music are you into then?' and I mention Grime it's often blank faces all-round.

Y'know, like Dizzee Rascal?

Oh, right, thought that was HipHop.

They are more likely to have heard about it through some mis-informed newspaper piece about youngsters in London listening to 'Gangster rap' and 'so-called grime'.

 

[elgato]

*the guardian will never find out what logan says about them on an internet forum, much less care. they're hardly going to cancel their 40-page grime spread as a result.

this is obviously true, but it belies a fair degree of (justified) antagonism toward the media, an attitude that just struck me as a bit hypocritical when criticising mcs for not engaging with PR and the media appropriately. but i guess if practice differs from talk then its irrelevant

what's more, we DO need the word 'grime'. we need to use it all the fucking time, and we need it to mean something more contemporary and relevant than 'that music that that bloke dizzee rascal used to make a few years ago'. i'm working on it.

*air to trim. muppet.

it all depends what is being shot at i suppose. am i wrong in thinking that i hear mixed messages coming from most quarters?... on the one hand there is a lot of talk of a strong independent scene with an infrastructure which can support itself. but theres also a lot of talk which indicates that a much wider audience is important - how the mainstream perceives it, and "crossover". how much does it matter whether the mainstream recognises its value if they are not required to sustain the scene? do the blank stares really have any bearing on the issue? other than with regard to personal (/collective) pride?

but i do agree that in a practical sense Trim's dismissal is negative (although i still think from an artistic or abstract perspective its commendable... although that depends on his intention, so its a pretty uncertain game all round i guess)

 

[mistersloane]

it all depends what is being shot at i suppose. am i wrong in thinking that i hear mixed messages coming from most quarters?... on the one hand there is a lot of talk of a strong independent scene with an infrastructure which can support itself. but theres also a lot of talk which indicates that a much wider audience is important - how the mainstream perceives it, and "crossover". how much does it matter whether the mainstream recognises its value if they are not required to sustain the scene? do the blank stares really have any bearing on the issue? other than with regard to personal (/collective) pride?

but i do agree that in a practical sense Trim's dismissal is negative (although i still think from an artistic or abstract perspective its commendable... although that depends on his intention, so its a pretty uncertain game all round i guess)

Trim's quote is just musician slops, I'd ignore it.

The messages aren't mixed - there IS a strong independent scene, but when you read interviews like the one with Ruff Sqwad in Echoes, where Rapid - who I don't think anyone would deny is phenomenally talented - is talking about having being knackered because he's working 12 hour shifts...a wider audience is important so that some of the people involved can stop having to do that sort of crap. It's just UK numbers. I'd say the blank stares have alot to do with people's obvious - certainly from that interview - exasperation with that situation. It's heartbreaking.

 

[elgato]

fair enough yeh im chatting nonsense

 

[mos dan]

it all depends what is being shot at i suppose. am i wrong in thinking that i hear mixed messages coming from most quarters?... on the one hand there is a lot of talk of a strong independent scene with an infrastructure which can support itself. but theres also a lot of talk which indicates that a much wider audience is important - how the mainstream perceives it, and "crossover". how much does it matter whether the mainstream recognises its value if they are not required to sustain the scene?

i don't think there are mixed messages.

on the one hand grime *should* be building self-sustaining infrastructures (not there yet), because it can't rely on the mainstream - as proven time and time again in the last few years.

on the other hand, a certain degree of mainstream interest and support would be nice, and is something to strive for: because the artists, and people like logan, and bun-u, and whoever else has invested time and money and phenomenal amounts of energy in this incredible music, deserve something - anything - by way of reward.

 

[rockypoppy2]

what is rapid's day job?

 

[Logan Sama]

Works as a security guard