sgn

Well-known member
I think post dubstep is definitely mysogynistic because it pitches down any vocal samples to make girls sound like weird transvestites on ketamine

I agree. That Burial guy? He's the biggest mysoginist of them all. I've heard that listening to his tunes increases domestic abuse against women by 65%.
 

wise

bare BARE BONES
no arguments that it's been around for decades (it has been, but what i think has changed is that it's become more dominant - i don't see any alternative represented) but where does the assumption that a lack of leery dudes and dodgy advertising techniques would lead to sexlessness come from?

I was refering to this quote from the Quietus article

"The highly erotically charged 'togetherness' of disco and house (legendary New York gay club The Saint featured a bespoke sex balcony) gave way to an almost totally sexless dancefloor vibe - E made ravers loved up, but not in that way."

My point was that this is a bit of a fantasy, i've been raving since the mid 90s and it's never been that way in my experience.

it's become more dominant - i don't see any alternative represented)

How do you back up that statement?
Surely there are plenty of alternatives?
There are lots of people that don't use female imagery to promote their productions/club nights just as there will always be some who will cos it's easy.
 
First post here, just want to FYI this:
http://trafn.tumblr.com/

Looks like it may be a thing...

Can't make judgements abt the post-gender nirvana rave was supposed to be about (b/c I never experienced it). Seems a bit far-fetched to me, but maybe I need to do some x and shut my yap.
 

SecondLine

Well-known member
I was refering to this quote from the Quietus article

"The highly erotically charged 'togetherness' of disco and house (legendary New York gay club The Saint featured a bespoke sex balcony) gave way to an almost totally sexless dancefloor vibe - E made ravers loved up, but not in that way."

My point was that this is a bit of a fantasy, i've been raving since the mid 90s and it's never been that way in my experience.

Perhaps not the best choice of word - what I meant was that properly E-d up clubs don't have an overtly sexual social dynamic...rather than that everybody forgets about it altogether. when everybody's high they don't give a shit about that. That's been my experience in the odd club where everyone's been on the same thing - it's quite a childish vibe. But I wasn't there in the mid 90s so I'm not gonna argue with your experience obviously.
 

UFO over easy

online mahjong
I was refering to this quote from the Quietus article

"The highly erotically charged 'togetherness' of disco and house (legendary New York gay club The Saint featured a bespoke sex balcony) gave way to an almost totally sexless dancefloor vibe - E made ravers loved up, but not in that way."

My point was that this is a bit of a fantasy, i've been raving since the mid 90s and it's never been that way in my experience.

fair enough, i don't object to the idea of a dancefloor as a sexualised space but i do object to sexuality being represented so narrowly. even if it's never quite translated to reality, a kind of social idealism has existed in dance music, and i think that's valuable.


wise said:
How do you back up that statement?
Surely there are plenty of alternatives?

i don't see women being represented any other way. a picture of a nice sunset isn't a relevant alternative

There are lots of people that don't use female imagery to promote their productions/club nights just as there will always be some who will cos it's easy.

why is it easy? who is it meant to appeal to, and how does that portray the scene?
 
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Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Reynolds linked this on his blog, a very long and interesting opinion piece about post-dubstep/wobble etc. This whole ''wobble is the real hardcore genre'' argument makes me worry that I have dismissed it through snobbery and might look back and think ''fuck! shoulda gone to wobble raves back in the golden age!'' It's funny, though - this guy (I assume they post/lurk on here since they mention dissensus a few times) says wobble is incredibly exciting but I've always heard it (at least when it began saturating dubstep raves) as BORING. I've said this loads of times but ''Spongebob'' was, for me, a great, lairy, exciting tune that became boring when surrounded by identically energetic/lairy tunes. But then - I suppose this was the result of me associating dubstep with variation in mood and energy/rhythm (+ occasional immersion in ''bass weight'' or whatever)... if I'd gone to dubstep raves (as most kids presumably do nowadays) expecting and demanding constant HYPE/''FILTH'' I'd probably have been going mental... It's hard to say why exactly but when I listen to old jungle tunes, even though I wasn't there at the time, I instantly think ''this is incredible music'' whereas with wobble I just cringe or get bored.

Mind you I have had fun dancing to absurdly jacked up N-Type sets.

Anyway, interesting piece which I haven't read even half of yet.

http://earthexit.blogspot.com/2011/11/its-seems-that-there-is-still-lot-of.html#links
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
And then, of course, there are others who go to 'post-dubstep' nights and think Sicko Cell is some mind-blowing tune who probably think right now is a golden age. But I go to those nights (or used to), as someone who (as a hater of wobble) is probably supposed to be excited and just feel quite uninspired by it all. To me it feels like the excitement is sort of being deliberately generated or willed by media/internet-hype rather than emerging naturally as it seemed to with dubstep. Obviously even as I type this I'm thinking '''yeah well dubstep was media/internet hype too'' and ''you're just not into it and THAT'S why...''
 

luka

Well-known member
i really admire the earnestness of both corpsey and tentative andy. i am very grateful for it.
 

FairiesWearBoots

Well-known member
having been a pilled up teen and raving in 91, I can assure you there was still a sexy vibe at the raves I went too - it was more a 'arent we messed up, you look as spangled as me, snog me - lets go back to mine' type of vibe - the overwhelming unity vibe was more 'us vs the system' from what I remember:eek:
 

wise

bare BARE BONES
fair enough, i don't object to the idea of a dancefloor as a sexualised space but i do object to sexuality being represented so narrowly. even if it's never quite translated to reality, a kind of social idealism has existed in dance music, and i think that's valuable.

i don't see women being represented any other way. a picture of a nice sunset isn't a relevant alternative

why is it easy? who is it meant to appeal to, and how does that portray the scene?

It's an easy way to sell stuff to blokes, I think you're being a bit obtuse here surely you realise this.
I'd like to think of myself as a feminist but I would be a liar if I said I didn't enjoy looking at beautiful women or pictures of the same.

How does it portray the scene? As being by blokes for blokes I guess which is a shame and I do agree with your other points.

The only way this will change is by more strong women being an active and visible part of the scene as DJs / Producers / Promoters. This did seem to be happening in this scene when Ikonika, Cooly G, Subeena etc all came through around the same time, shame there haven't been more since.
Are there other women that aren't getting media attention that you know of?
 

wise

bare BARE BONES
@BenUFO

Are you leveling this criticism at the post-dubstep scene in particular because as a part of it you feel responsible for it's guidance?

As a scene its use of female imagery is far less than Garage or Funky House are you making no critique of those scenes because you are outside of them?
 

Benny B

Well-known member
Reynolds linked this on his blog, a very long and interesting opinion piece about post-dubstep/wobble etc. This whole ''wobble is the real hardcore genre'' argument makes me worry that I have dismissed it through snobbery and might look back and think ''fuck! shoulda gone to wobble raves back in the golden age!'' It's funny, though - this guy (I assume they post/lurk on here since they mention dissensus a few times) says wobble is incredibly exciting but I've always heard it (at least when it began saturating dubstep raves) as BORING. I've said this loads of times but ''Spongebob'' was, for me, a great, lairy, exciting tune that became boring when surrounded by identically energetic/lairy tunes. But then - I suppose this was the result of me associating dubstep with variation in mood and energy/rhythm (+ occasional immersion in ''bass weight'' or whatever)... if I'd gone to dubstep raves (as most kids presumably do nowadays) expecting and demanding constant HYPE/''FILTH'' I'd probably have been going mental... It's hard to say why exactly but when I listen to old jungle tunes, even though I wasn't there at the time, I instantly think ''this is incredible music'' whereas with wobble I just cringe or get bored.

Mind you I have had fun dancing to absurdly jacked up N-Type sets.

Anyway, interesting piece which I haven't read even half of yet.

http://earthexit.blogspot.com/2011/11/its-seems-that-there-is-still-lot-of.html#links


Stopped taking this article seriously when, scrolling through the piece I saw this...

Quite simply one of the most revolutionary and radically new records of any period – if anyone could listen to this and not hear the shock of the future, then they could just as well have been listening to "Acid Tracks" in 1987 and dismissed it as a regurgitation of disco, or to Are We Not Men? in 1978 and dismissed it as retro-prog.

I scrolled back up to see what this genius could possibly be, turns out he's talking about...slugabed

Oh, and then he goes on to say he doesn't really like Juke, but he loves the idea of jukestep.
 
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