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"El-B's essential idea was to marry Metalheadz dark jungle bass with Twice as Nice r&b swing. Surely that's the roots of dubstep there? Why is it revisionist to mention it? In general his remixes tended to be less impressive than his original productions. off the top of my head there's the Pink...

"Very busy atm, but just wanted to note that I think the issue with GA is not lack of personality. It has more to do with lack of persona, which relates to the issue of myth/fiction deficit we were talking about on the other thread. Will try and substantiate this later." Yeah I do know what you...

Re the "part-interchangability" issue, I wouldn't pretend that I've learnt anything salient about the members' personalities (though to be fair the second GA album wasn't even released in Australia, "Biology" has only just been released here and it's the first thing we've had since "Jump"). But...

That rock & roll style not rock & roll form thesis is spot on Mark, I hadn't really thought of it in quite that way before. The track that I think most openly demonstrates the Xenomania game plan is actually "Graffiti My Soul" from <i>What Will The Neighbours Say</i>, perhaps because it's so...

No you're right Logos. I guess it's just that, contra Logan, it seems like I'm<i>always</i> seeing people talking about El-B/Gurley etc. as progenitors of dubstep, and they alongside Dem 2 are put out there as the true soldiers of 2-step or something. It makes sense from a dubstep perspective...

I'm not sure if you can talk about one Saint Etienne approach to pop in that sense though, as they've changed their minds on how they conceive of 'pop' several times - there's a world of difference between, say, the notion of pop expressed in "He's On The Phone" and that in the music on <i>Good...

isn't it a bit revisionist to only talk about El-B in terms of "roots of dubstep"? He did some awesome poppy tracks and remixes too. I hope I'm mistaken when I get the impression that most people here are only interested in 2-step garage as a historical footnote preceding dubstep..

"a genre of derivitive and cliche ridden poseur Rock'n'roll/Singer Songwriter crap that clueless, Von-Dutch wearing trendy morons and high-school kids are into." Oh no!! Who will stop the hordes of clueless Von-Dutch wearing trendy morons and high-school kids!??!

"Because I accept that I can make stupid and bad choices, that much of my time is spent wastefully etc." I lied! I've decided to return to this quote because I actually quite like it. My issue with the term "mindless entertainment" is not grounded in an objection to the notion that some...

"If I spend a night watching poor quality television programmes, as I often do, I would not object to it described as 'mindless consumerist entertainment'. Because I accept that I can make stupid and bad choices, that much of my time is spent wastefully etc. I suspect that, despite the best...

Mark I hope you realise that I was trying to delineate yr position from Ben Watson's! My post was meant with some spirit of reconciliation etc. "As I've said before, I'm sceptical about the possibility of separating these two levels, and certainly of conceiving of the myth/ sonic...

"Fair enough, but what WOULD be mindless consumerist entertainment then? No-one is suggesting that even the worst pop doesn't 'produce all kinds of emotions and thoughts in people', but so do tabloid newspapers, pornography... " "Mindless consumerist entertainment" = a lie we tell ourselves...

Ha ha I must admit that I actually am taken in a bit by Franz Ferdinand's "gibberish lyrics that are supposed to sound clever" when I hear them on the radio - at least on "The Fallen", although that's probably the worst (or best?) of them in this capacity. But then "gibberish lyrics that are...

I really liked Glass Candy's "Sugar & Whitebread" (abstracted Blondie-meets-ESG shimmering post-punk-disco, basically a femme vox version of "Me & Giuliani Down By The Schoolyard") but then i bought the album by them which preceded it and wasn't terribly impressed.

"So In Love" is awesome too - so eerie and involving. And the version of "De Papal" with the ridulous(ly great) raps! Actually that final 3 song stretch is a total victory lap of brilliance.

David "Tell Me" is so good!!! So melodramatic and overripe! It sorta strikes me as the kinda sound Timbaland and Brandy were <i>trying</i> to get on <i>Afrodisiac</i>. "Your Behind" is not quite so good (and it's odd how many of these delectable, epic Tim'n'Bob productions prop up unusually...

Oh yeah there are definitely exceptions, it's not a hard and fast rule. I also like older "organic" sounding R&B from the early-to-mid nineties (which Amerie is taking some of her cues from), it's more a particular vibe of mustiness that tends to go with stuff from the last seven or so years...

I guess I'll have to check out Anthony Hamilton and take a chance - organic never <i>particularly</i> bodes well for me but we'll see. Yeah Michael I love "Drunk"! The Tweet song that made it onto my comp though was "Steer" from the new album, which combines a similar hazy smear with a...

By last year I mean 2004 obv, still not getting the hang of this whole 2006 thing.

Ha ha Teedra Moses was my second favourite album of last year! Such a good album! Also in the "epic sumptuous R&B" category about from "Backstroke" are "For A Lifetime" and "Last Day". Meanwhile while the title track "Complex Simplicity" is somtimes the best song ever made.