World Cup 2010

[crackerjack]

can some of our tactics nuts tell me if this is worth reading?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/jun/17/world-cup-2010-statistics-ball

short of time at the mo

 

[scottdisco]

No, it's a really interesting post. In any analysis of football in England "width" is basically seen as the be all and end all. See every column David Pleat writes in the Guardian, every week.

Is the implication, then, that eg England would not struggle so much if they were forced out wide because, with two attacking full backs and at least on nippy winger, the width is built in? (Conversely, England's shortcomings are exactly the type of ball and shape retention issues that Spain excel at). Spain got noticably better when they brought on Navas, who got out wide and took the full back on.

The first choice Brazil and Spain teams don't have much natural width. It makes them v compact and difficult to beat, but there are ways to combat it from a defensive pov.

good points to ponder Hucks, and teams that do want to attack them may well go wide (where they are better offensively than the Brazilians or Spaniards), and then we have an attacking feast when the compact Spaniards or Bra can do their thing. from an England pov i want J Cole and Lennon roaming at will, w Gerrard drifting too, Barry and Lamps further back, and that will allow A Cole a bit more license too, and he is no slouch. (it'd have to be more attractive than what we got against the USA.)

that blog, Bab, is amazing.
i think it was one of mrfaucet, routes or D_Q that repped it originally, which seems apt, they are sort of the Gullit, Van Basten, Rijkaard of the thread. (Hucks seeing all and his big picture approach could be say, Matthaus, or Xavi if you want Hucks, which leaves Alex and Paolo as Messi and Villa
analogies, what a very geeky Dissensian thing of me to do...)

what you excerpt about harrying players was how Rubin Kazan did a deserved smash and grab in the Nou Camp not so long ago IIRC and - although i didn't see this match, anyone? - one would assume how USA beat Spain last summer.

someone posted this ages ago IIRC, but i want to re-link, purely because we've seen a lot of organisation so far from some teams.

At Milan, Arrigo Sacchi got fed up of players moaning about his obsession with team shape, and so proved its worth with a simple drill. "I convinced [Ruud] Gullit and [Marco] Van Basten by telling them that five organised players would beat 10 disorganised ones," he said. "And I proved it to them. I took five players: Giovanni Galli in goal, [Mauro] Tassotti, [Paolo] Maldini, [Alesandro] Costacurta and [Franco] Baresi. They had 10 players: Gullit, Van Basten, [Frank] Rijkaard, [Pietro Paolo] Virdis, [Alberigo] Evani, [Carlo] Ancelotti, [Angelo] Colombo, [Roberto] Donadoni, [Christian] Lantignotti and [Graziano] Mannari. They had 15 minutes to score against my five players, the only rule was that if we won possession or they lost the ball, they had to start over from 10 metres inside their own half. I did this all the time and they never scored. Not once."

There are times when possession matters less than organisation.

Jonathan Wilson in the Guardian

 

[baboon2004]

what you excerpt about harrying players was how Rubin Kazan did a deserved smash and grab in the Nou Camp not so long ago IIRC and - although i didn't see this match, anyone? - one would assume how USA beat Spain last summer.

and also, interestingly, how Arsenal bested Barcelona for 30 mins (?) at the Nou Camp.

 

[computer_rock]

zonal marking is amazing.

very crudely: i think spain are too one-dimensional to go all the way.

that zonal marking analysis got it pretty spot on with how narrow they were. a team with two disciplined banks of four is going to continually frustrate them. teams with serious counter-attacking potential like brazil or even england are going to cause a lot more problems than switzerland did and i do wonder if their defence is up to that kind of challenge

 

[jenks]

Been lurking a bit on this thread for a while now...

from an England pov i want J Cole and Lennon roaming at will, w Gerrard drifting too, Barry and Lamps further back, and that will allow A Cole a bit more license too, and he is no slouch.

That seems to me to be England's best chance - the USA game wasn't too bad but I feel we missed out on the chance to use various players to their advantage. If Lennon is not given the ball then we play with 10 men - the one time when he played a fast give and go he was able to get one on one with a defender and he made a chance. The side is loaded with pace (except at centre backs and no-one expects them to be pacy) and we are not a tippy tappy side so we need to play much more to that classic counterattacking game. I think back to Inter v Barca - possession stats mean nothing if you can soak it up and then let your flair players loose.

in the rest of the WC - the absence of decent crosses, free kicks or set piece skill is a constant moan every time a major tournament comes round and is about the weight of expectation as much as anything else.

I'm really enjoying teh tournament because it is so tight and because the pressure grows as each game comes around - come game 3 it's a knockout competion already if the groups remain this tight.

 

[baboon2004]

in the rest of the WC - the absence of decent crosses, free kicks or set piece skill is a constant moan every time a major tournament comes round and is about the weight of expectation as much as anything else.
.

Messi's free kick right now was an example of how to do it - ball goes into the danger area, anything can happen. I reckon Argentina look good - if they can get two or three strikers hitting form at the same time, they'll take some stopping.

 

[scottdisco]

Forlan yday has been the best dead-ball treatment yet in a single match. (i think.)

computer_rock definitely making sense ^ re Spain.

 

[baboon2004]

Disappointing then that the number of total World Cup winners looks set to hold and hold at 7. A new name might've been welcome - no team outside that 7 has even reached the final since the Netherlands in 78 - it's 29-7 in final appearances. And considering that 7 contains England and France and Uruguay with a paltry 5 final appearances between them, it's 24-12 in final appearances for four countries vs the rest of the world.

Change is due!

Edit: Shades of Maradona in 86 from Messi just then. God I hope they win it, despite what I've just said.

 

[luka]

why has no one mentioned that messi is the absolute exact spitting image of dissensus' own woebot? i

 

[scottdisco]

why has no one mentioned that messi is the absolute exact spitting image of dissensus' own woebot? i

the GER-AUS match was good for lookalikes.

Ozil, Peter Lorre

Klose, a bit like a taller version of the frontman from that band Muse

Chipperfield, his brothers could be Tom Waits or Ron Perlman (the youngest brother could well be Nicky Butt)

 

[IdleRich]

"Disappointing then that the number of total World Cup winners looks set to hold and hold at 7. A new name might've been welcome - no team outside that 7 has even reached the final since the Netherlands in 78"

But France had never won it at that point so to my mind they are a team from out of the six who pushed their way in after 78.

I think that the Serbian right-midfielder/winger looks like the spooky (non-vampire) child in Let The Right One In.

 

[Lichen]

why has no one mentioned that messi is the absolute exact spitting image of dissensus' own woebot? i

Because Woebot has much longer hair - and his hairbands are far more elaborate than Messi's.

 

[luka]

you are confusing messi with tevez. tevez looks like a caveman.

 

[luka]

a caveman crossed with a monster

 

[grizzleb]

Robinho - Carl Craig

 

[baboon2004]

He's a very good player though.

 

[luka]

he has a very low forehead though. and no neck.

 

[don_quixote]

korea could go far. korea vs uruguay if it is indeed that line up could be an absolute world cup classic. chile vs portugal as well.

i still think switzerland have to fuck up, surely?

 

[crackerjack]

so latest england whispers are green to be replaced by.....james

what's the advantage of experience when you simply have long experience of being flaky?

james almost guarantees you blunders, esp. in high-pressure matches. he's less agile than he used to be too.

 

[IdleRich]

I thiink James has got less flaky over the years - admittedly he started from a high level of flakiness so I don't know precisely where that leaves him now. He's always been a good shot stopper it's just his positioning and, particularly, his decision making, that have let him down. Those are in some ways the harder aspects of goalkeeping, they depend on thought rather than instinct but because of that they can be learned.

Quite enjoyed Nigeria v Greece but that rush of blood to the head cost 'em dear. I don't get why the commentators are all so down on Greece, they seemed to have it in for them even before a ball was kicked. Then they were saying "I doubt they have the ability to break down Nigeria even with ten men" - seconds later Greece cut them apart three times in a row. Seems weird that everyone is demanding this amazingly ambitious, attacking football from a country that has never won a world cup game before. Sets up a good ending to the group though, presumably Argentina will beat Greece which means that if Nigeria beat Korea they will probably be through.