World Cup 2010

[baboon2004]

Well, I'd say they were mounting something of a challenge until the third goal went in.
I disagree with the second bit as well, if they are mentally that affected by a disallowed goal then who is to say what could have happened if the goal hadn't been disallowed? If they had gone in at 2-2 and then won the match then that brittleness may never have been discovered or investigated.

This is the reason England never win anything and never come close. Unfair shit happens all the time in football - deal with it and go on and win the game anyway (or at least make a creditable atttempt - as with 2002, I've never seen a team with pretensions to being a top power give up so obviously as in the last 20 mins on Sunday)!

That brittleness has been exposed time and time again in the England squad's mentality in games against top-ranking nations, which is why they haven't won one in the knockout stages since 1966...it's not coincidence. That kind of brittleness gets found out in knockout games.

Predictions for today: Paraguay 2-1 Japan, Portugal 1-1 Spain, Port on pens

 

[luka]

internet joke-
The English football team visited an orphanage in Capetown today."It's heart-breaking to see their sad, hopeless little faces"said Jamal, aged 6 and a half.

 

[luka]

now is a good time to revisit this.
Don Strapzy ft Dee Gully & Rem - Support The Lads

 

[baboon2004]

I'm not sure which one of those is funnier.

Surely Redknapp can't be next England manager? Although he does have a sound grasp of Aristotelian logic:

"Surely we have to find a manager from England, an English manager. I'm not talking about a Scottish manager or an Irish manager, I'm talking about an English manager."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jun/28/world-cup-2010-harry-redknapp-england

Why not Roy Keane?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jun/29/england-world-cup-fabio-capello

 

[baboon2004]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/29/cheating-football-germany-goalkeeper

This made me laugh out loud. Of course, no English players would ever do the same. Those no-good foreigners....as opposed to the ethical approach of our very own Robbie Fowler!

 

[IdleRich]

I dunno, the article is titled "Why is Cheating OK in Football?" and it is weird that, all round the world, fair play has taken an absolute backseat to the "win at all costs" mentality. It's getting to be in all sports though really now I reckon, I mean, cricketers walk more than footballers do the equivalent but they don't do it every time like they used to (or so I'm told by older fans).

 

[craner]

There would've been something satisfying about watching 8 goals go in against that England team. What a charmless team it was, in the end. Let's face it, if Ashley Cole is your most attractive player, you're in deep trouble.

 

[IdleRich]

There aren't many in that squad that you would want to go for a pint with that's for sure.

 

[petergunn]

i've always been an admirer (natch) of the great man, but this WC, it's the suits, the hair, the earring even, but i've definitely got a bit of a man crush going on w him.

also his press conference where he started banging on about his '31 year old blonde' lady friend was first rate

er i meant "may run naked thru buenos aires" as in they may win the cup...

but, yes, he has been gold this entire cup... he looks like pablo escobar's cousin that suit and his enthusiasm is ridiculous... very funny to see him in the middle of the scrum (breaking things up) when the mexican/alergian players started fighting after the first half ended...

 

[Slothrop]

The argument against goal-line technology / video-replays etc that it's bad for the game because the game should be the same in a local sunday league match as it is in the world cup finals is such an obvious bollix that it astonishes me that it doesn't just get laughed at every time it's mentioned.

It's no change to the rules or the nature of the game at all, just a change to how well those rules can be applied. It makes a lot less difference to the actual game than, say, the difference between playing on a manicured world cup pitch and playing on a tatty bit of grass in east london - but noone complains that groundsmen are bad for the sport.

 

[Slothrop]

Good call on yesterdays predictions, btw, I'm looking a bit less like a failure now.

 

[scottdisco]

er i meant "may run naked thru buenos aires" as in they may win the cup...

oh yes i knew you meant that, i was just off on my own tangent

but, yes, he has been gold this entire cup... he looks like pablo escobar's cousin that suit and his enthusiasm is ridiculous... very funny to see him in the middle of the scrum (breaking things up) when the mexican/alergian players started fighting after the first half ended...

i also enjoyed footage of him barking in the tunnel at HT against the Koreans. his touches of the ball when it comes off the field have been pretty neat at times too...

...also what Slothrop just said re technology has always struck me as a fair objection to those who parrot it needs to be the same at all levels. the big north American team sports use a lot of tech for these sorts of things at the highest level don't they, but it's not as if some Little League ballgame in small town Ohio will be doing so, for eg.

of course, to counter that by observing this is just one more chip away, one more measure of distance, between football at the top flight and park football, is also fair, but given the obscene wealth that has been circulating in the top levels for years now, w the Premiership (for instance) seeming to regard redistribution of wealth the same way John Redwood does (it's more trickle-down theories - as much as any neoliberal economist - all the way, AFAICT), and the absurd gulfs between levels already, i fail to see how some measure of goal-line technology/fifth official trial is going to make the sky fall in too much. (i realise Slothrop said all the above better and more concisely but hey )

i know Blatter has just announced today they'll be looking at the options.

did you have a flutter yday Bab? you called both them exactly right, i imagine you could have won a decent wedge there!

 

[don_quixote]

well that was disappointing. poor japan.

 

[mrfaucet]

of course, to counter that by observing this is just one more chip away, one more measure of distance, between football at the top flight and park football, is also fair, but given the obscene wealth that has been circulating in the top levels for years now, w the Premiership (for instance) seeming to regard redistribution of wealth the same way John Redwood does (it's more trickle-down theories - as much as any neoliberal economist - all the way, AFAICT), and the absurd gulfs between levels already, i fail to see how some measure of goal-line technology/fifth official trial is going to make the sky fall in too much. (i realise Slothrop said all the above better and more concisely but hey )

Does all the wealth at the top of the game - or any other significant differences - really affect people's relationship to the game in terms of actually playing it (which is surely what is at stake here)? To me it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. Playing football last night would of been the same to me in terms of my own enjoyment regardless of what the game is like in the Prem or the World Cup. (I realise you are maybe bringing this up more as a devil's advocate thing.)

The other thing about video technology that I don't think is mentioned enough is how it can pretty much stamp out corruption. If a ref is faced with irrefutable evidence (obviously there are some grey areas but most goals and offsides are fairly clear I think once the replay has been seen) then it is harder for them to be bias in one team's favour. This is maybe something that is less of a concern in top competitions (although we all remember Calciopoli of course), but in some it is a real problem. The Chinese league is a case in point and is hampering the country's footballing development. Now the Chinese FA might not be able to afford the introduction of video technology - I have no idea either way - but currently they are outright denied one very clear way of dealing with this corruption. If FIFA/Blatter are really keen to develop football around the world then this would be a significant way they could do it.

As for the cost, aren't FIFA set to make over $2 billion from this World Cup? It's surely not asking too much for them to set aside some of that to help introduce video technology to WC qualifiers and the WC itself.

 

[scottdisco]

The other thing about video technology that I don't think is mentioned enough is how it can pretty much stamp out corruption. If a ref is faced with irrefutable evidence (obviously there are some grey areas but most goals and offsides are fairly clear I think once the replay has been seen) then it is harder for them to be bias in one team's favour. This is maybe something that is less of a concern in top competitions (although we all remember Calciopoli of course), but in some it is a real problem. The Chinese league is a case in point and is hampering the country's footballing development. Now the Chinese FA might not be able to afford the introduction of video technology - I have no idea either way - but currently they are outright denied one very clear way of dealing with this corruption. If FIFA/Blatter are really keen to develop football around the world then this would be a significant way they could do it.

yep, i was being devil's advocate, really can't see any solid objections either myself.

like what you mention here, this would be a great argument to pursue. (i think as well as the above examples, doesn't the Malaysian league, to name just one other, have quite a few problems?)

 

[mixed_biscuits]

Does all the wealth at the top of the game - or any other significant differences - really affect people's relationship to the game in terms of actually playing it (which is surely what is at stake here)? To me it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference.

I think that too large a difference between the elite game and that at the grass roots can be detrimental to the development of the game in general, alienating casual participants. As things currently stand, there is nothing to stop a pair of Sunday league teams from participating in a game of football that is as good and true as one at the World Cup. I like that.

In any case, it is already within the power of those most affected by refereeing decisions - the players - to stamp out injustice and inaccuracy. To absolve the participants from all responsibility for actions that lie within the moral sphere is patronising - they should be permitted to get what they deserve.

The other thing about video technology that I don't think is mentioned enough is how it can pretty much stamp out corruption. If a ref is faced with irrefutable evidence (obviously there are some grey areas but most goals and offsides are fairly clear I think once the replay has been seen) then it is harder for them to be bias in one team's favour.

Surely video technology as it is currently employed - after the fact - can already be used to pin-point dodgy decisions and help disembarrass the game of corruption. The ref's decisions can already be assessed and, if deemed to be sub-par, the official can be relieved of his duties.

 

[bandshell]

I hope Roy Hodgson becomes England manager.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

As for goal-line decisions, they could be made easier to call by giving a gentle backwards incline to that part of the pitch inside the goalmouth, angling the ball into the net.

 

[scottdisco]

Surely video technology as it is currently employed - after the fact - can already be used to pin-point dodgy decisions and help disembarrass the game of corruption. The ref's decisions can already be assessed and, if deemed to be sub-par, the official can be relieved of his duties.

one fears - in some leagues, certainly - they need more help than this, those on the side of the footballing angels (so to speak).

P.S.
remember the notorious incident of Spurs being denied a goal at Old Trafford some years back, Roy Carroll reaching way over the line to grab at the ball. maybe some people at United (perhaps Mr Carroll) should have got what they deserved (to paraphrase M_B) after this case, but IIRC nothing ever happened. say a fifth official or whatever keeping tabs on these specific sorts of things (which are pretty rare, after all), i don't know, but there doesn't seem to be anything too wrong w that.

M_B's "too large a difference" line of reasoning also seems quite seductive, tbf, even if that is the fence-sitting romantic in me...

 

[IdleRich]

Good points Mr Faucet - I simply haven't seen any coherent objection to video replays for the types of decisions that can be clearly and objectively decided by their use (ie goal line incidents and offsides I guess).

"I think that too large a difference between the elite game and that at the grass roots can be detrimental to the development of the game in general, alienating casual participants. As things currently stand, there is nothing to stop a pair of Sunday league teams from participating in a game of football that is as good and true as one at the World Cup. I like that."

Well, as someone said above, Sunday league teams will be playing on a worse pitch with a less well-paid (and in theory less competent) ref and linesmen (or whatever they're called now). The league I play in has a ref and no assistant refs, I don't feel as though I'm somehow playing a different game, I just recognise that the small amount of money I pay to participate is not enough to pay for three officials in every game. I don't think it would be too much of a stretch for me to think the same if they introduced video replays to the professional game but somehow neglected to do the same in my league.
Introducing technology wouldn't be changing the rules, it would just be making the best effort to get right the rules as they stand which, in principle, is what they ought to be doing anyway.