Slothrop
Tight but Polite
Or indeed jamaican youth way back when copying jump-boogie styles they'd heard on import from america...
Lana Del Rey - Born to Die
- Thread starter IdleRich
- Start date
ha nice. this proves the many exceptions and different ways of interpretation inherent within the concept of Authenticity, and the problems with any claims of universality in its interpretatin, but not its total irrelevance or meaninglessness.
no culture evolved completely independent of other cultures, but its very recognition as a culture means it has reached a point where it can be readily identified as such.
e/y
Well-known member
wow
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
So basically, if as a white suburban english person I decide that I want to make a record that sounds like juke because I think juke is absolutely the most shit hot sound on the planet and everything else sounds irrelevant in comparison, I have to wait until there are some arbitrary number of other white suburban english people who feel the same way and we can apply to UNESCO to have it recognized as an official Cultural Trait of white suburban english people to like juke?
IdleRich
IdleRich
As the person who started the thread I do resent the implication that I don't actually like the song I'm on about. My reasons for liking it may be a little muddled and it may be very different from the stuff I usually listen to (hence the thread) but I'm not gonna pretend to like something for so called post-modern reasons.
Yeah, and does this just apply to making music? I mean, maybe you could be allowed to listen to music when you're not authentically from that culture but dj-ing that style is definitely treading on dangerous ground.
thank you for admitting to that which everyone here knows is true, but some choose to disingenuously, hypocrtically deny.
there are different definitions, perspectives, and interpretations, as seen in the awesome Peel story, nothing is absolute.
so YT or Gentleman can be argued to be, in many ways, more authentic than some hypothetical Jamaican who is merely going through the motions and cynically churning out what he thinks will sell according to market analysis.
sliding, and more than one scale for sure, but again, no absolutes. the concept itself is relative - but it doesn't mean absolute relativism
no not exactly, and there are exceptions, but more often than not, i think it does.
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answered and explained above.
rubberdingyrapids
Well-known member
what about listener authenticity. i hate the idea that just because someone isnt from the same background as the maker (this seems to apply esp with black music) that you shouldnt listen to it (until it goes pop of course, when it becomes more ok for everyone). or from the reverse angle, when people say that you MUST listen to the music made by the same group as you.
IdleRich
IdleRich
Hold on a sec - I was agreeing that it's not an argument against authenticity's existence, not saying that authenticity does exist. But, for what it's worth, I do believe that it does exist, just that it's a slippery concept and, also, more relevantly, that the sliding scale representing authenticity and quality are a lot less closely tied than you think. And I'm gonna go back to what I said ealier about the struggle for authenticity that I associate with Paul Weller or Eric Clapton or whatever - I think that it is a prescription for the most boring music you can get. Though not always of course cos general rules always turn out to be wrong.
of course not
because white music is perceived as "universal" music, in the context of white cultural hegemony - Eureopean classical deemed as the "universal" standard of "high culture", etc. And "ethnic" music, which to some degree includes Afro and Afro-diasporic, or "black" music as you call it, is perceived to be more specific. this false perceptual structure is the source of inequity.
factor of shared and inherited experience can not be denied.
we all should critique interpretations of Authenticity and the restrictive ways it is used,
point out its limits and flaws, expand upon its reductionism,
demonstrate how its uses can be harmful for individuals as well as culture at large.
but get the fuck outta here with that "it doesn't exist / is meaningless" Bull Shit.
lol yeah right that is EXACTLY what i'm saying*
*sarcasm
"can not be denied" means the EXISTENCE of shared experiences, in other words culture, and the effect it has on the development of an individual can not be denied.
i don't mean that this shared experience, or culture, always dictates the direction of everyone's life.
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yes i was just responding to the last part.
and i'm not offended by interpretations as much as get irked by dishonesty and hypocrisy.
you like Lana Del Rey? fine. if you want to defend "her" music, then make a good case for why or what about the "fabricated inauthenticity" (a description no one had a problem with) works, and is appealing.
don't go around saying "the Real is horrible" and "authenticity is meaningless" and similar shit-turds.