the socialism of fools

[version]

A few years back it was Polish neo-nazi skinheads round here.

I remember reading about Polish hooligans working with Neo-Nazis in Liverpool a few years ago. There was an incident with a bunch of people getting arrested after some sort of demo. Always struck me as a little odd that a Polish person would side with Nazis.

 

[john eden]

Is antisemitism a big part of Black Nationalism?

It can be and was certainly part of The Nation of Islam’s schtick. Hence Professor Griff from Public Enemy being castigated for some unwise statements.

But Black Nationalism is a broad church obvs.

 

[version]

The cynic in me says the Chief Rabbi's a conservative, but then again he must feel it's pretty serious to come out with a piece like that.

 

[version]

The voter registration deadline is tonight too.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I remember reading about Polish hooligans working with Neo-Nazis in Liverpool a few years ago. There was an incident with a bunch of people getting arrested after some sort of demo. Always struck me as a little odd that a Polish person would side with Nazis.

Less so when you consider that the last massacre of Jews in Europe happened in Poland in 1946.

Another place that has neo-Nazi skinheads is Israel, actually.

 

[yyaldrin]

people tend to forget that half of europe sided with the nazi's. churchill didn't give a fuck about hitler, it was only fear of communism that motivated him.

 

[Mr. Tea]

people tend to forget that half of europe sided with the nazi's. churchill didn't give a fuck about hitler, it was only fear of communism that motivated him.

Come off it mate, that's complete fucking garbage and you know it.

 

[luka]

Oh no not spluttering tea again! Calm down old chap

 

[yyaldrin]

Come off it mate, that's complete fucking garbage and you know it.

the first or the latter part?

 

[Mr. Tea]

Oh no not spluttering tea again! Calm down old chap

It's just a bit frustrating when what is, or was, a fruitful discussion gets derailed by people coming out with complete nonsense.

 

[Slothrop]

The cynic in me says the Chief Rabbi's a conservative, but then again he must feel it's pretty serious to come out with a piece like that.

It would look a lot more like genuine concern and less like party-politics if it there was more acknowledgement that, say, "associating with those who've incited hatred against Jews" applies pretty well to the party that chums up with the likes of Fidesz and Law and Justice in the European Parliament and has strategy meetings with Steve Bannon...

 

[Mr. Tea]

the first or the latter part?

Churchill was a right-wing imperialist and did not think kindly of communism. That's unambiguously true. But he said he would "make an alliance with the devil himself" (ie. Stalin) in order to defeat Hitler, and that's exactly what he did.

And sure, Nazi Germany had allies, but come the fuck on, Britain was not one of them, nor was it neutral. It was the USSR that had the non-aggression pact with Germany, remember. Hitler and Stalin were happy to carve up Eastern Europe between them before Hitler fucked that up by invading Russia.

I find it bizarre that I'm having to say this. Didn't you cover this stuff in school?

 

[luka]

I could say the same to you as regards the role of secret societies in history but I didn't consider it a derailment of a thread more a wonderful opportunity to land some blows. Pow sock biff.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I could say the same to you as regards the role of secret societies in history but I didn't consider it a derailment of a thread more a wonderful opportunity to land some blows. Pow sock biff.

Well I guess on the one hand there's some photos of actors and pop stars making a hand gesture, and on the other hand there's the historical fact of World War Two. So we'll call it quits if you like.

 

[luka]

You didn't read what I wrote. Doesn't matter. Now we really are derailing the thread.

 

[john eden]

Churchill was a right-wing imperialist and did not think kindly of communism. That's unambiguously true. But he said he would "make an alliance with the devil himself" (ie. Stalin) in order to defeat Hitler, and that's exactly what he did.

And sure, Nazi Germany had allies, but come the fuck on, Britain was not one of them, nor was it neutral. It was the USSR that had the non-aggression pact with Germany, remember. Hitler and Stalin were happy to carve up Eastern Europe between them before Hitler fucked that up by invading Russia.

I find it bizarre that I'm having to say this. Didn't you cover this stuff in school?

The issue is on what basis were the Nazis opposed by the various players. Given that Churchill was a racist and didn't seem particularly bothered initially about the treatment of Jews in Germany it is entirely plausible that the British state's entry into the war was down to German expansionism rather than committed anti-fascism per se. It's quite clear that a number of English poshoes thought Hitler was fine initially - you only have to look at the Mitford family, Oswald Moseley etc.

If the British state is so unambiguously anti-fascist why did it do fuck all when Franco rose to power in Spain?

 

[yyaldrin]

churchill to mussolini:

“If I had been an Italian I am sure that I should have been whole-heartedly with you from the start to finish in your triumphant struggle against the bestial appetites and passions of Leninism."

 

[version]

I read last night that the allies launched Operation Overlord primarily because they realised Stalin had Hitler on the run and would have all of Europe if they didn't get in there too. It was about retaining a market.

 

[version]

Paul Brand
‏Verified account @PaulBrandITV

BREAKING: Muslim Council of Britain stands by Chief Rabbi but also tells people to vote with their conscience on Islamophobia in Tory party:

“This an issue that is particularly acute in the Conservative Party who have approached Islamophobia with denial, dismissal and deceit.”

 

[DannyL]

Always amazed I've never heard any anti semitic stuff via Wu Tang, on reflection. Thought they'd be ripe for it with that 5 percenter influence.