Brexit Day

[luka]

But I agree there is no point pretending that it didn't happen or however you said it. The main point is to prevent the same tactics and stuff winning again on the next thing. I think we can all see that US democracy is in an absolutely critical moment right now, if it is to continue even in its debased form then Trump must be stopped at the next election, otherwise it will be gone. I think that Johnson would love to take us to the same position and he's not much less far along - so it's crucial to not keep getting suckered by lies and so on, move on yeah, but keep hammering on about the cheating. I see now for example that the Russia report has still not been released - again I don't think it will be a smoking gun, but - I am glad that people keep banging on about it, it's important that it doesn't become the norm that the government can suppress reports into itself. That's my main point really.

The trump thing is the same thing in as much as, maybe don't spend all your time trying to reverse history. He won. Foul or fair. So how about invent something cunts might want to vote for next time instead of trying to wave a magic wand to make him disappear

 

[luka]

Surely we have winning ideas? Racism is rubbish and boring. We must have some better stuff we can use and mobilise enough people

 

[IdleRich]

The trump thing is the same thing in as much as, maybe don't spend all your time trying to reverse history. He won. Foul or fair. So how about invent something cunts might want to vote for next time instead of trying to wave a magic wand to make him disappear

You're missing the point here. I'm not talking about the past, I'm talking about the present and the immediate future. Yesterday Trump tweeted that the Stone (his friend) sentence was too harsh, then a bit later Barr (the head of the Dept of Justice and the Attorney General) suddenly changed the advice re the sentencing.
If he is willing to ignore the separation of powers and so on in this way, what's to stop him declaring an election that he loses null and void? Trump controls the DOJ, the Senate and the Supreme Court (or at least it's a Republican majority) - suppose he loses an election, what's to stop him saying it was invalid cos there were too many illegal voters (as he claimed last time when he failed to win an overall majority)? If he does that and the Supreme Court backs him, what's to make him have another vote? This is what I'm worried about - I don't really care about the Russian stuff from before, except in that, cos it worked once (and the Senate blocked attempts to introduce controls that would make it harder), why won't it be used again? If you're still talking about "winning ideas" you're fighting the wrong battle here.

 

[IdleRich]

They say that generals often lose cos they are fighting the previous battle, what you're saying is fighting the one before that.

 

[luka]

Dunno man I just think can we make something cool cos,if we do their thing is obsolete

 

[IdleRich]

I don't think so because...
In the last election there was Russian interference which helped Republicans (confirmed by US security services)
Even so the Rs failed to win the popular vote...
... but they won enough seats in the Electoral College to choose the president (fair enough these were always the rules)
Since then the president (there by minority vote) has been able to appoint numerous judges to various courts - who can serve for life
They have tried - with some success - to introduce various controls (eg ID) which are designed to make it harder for demographics that traditionally vote Dem to vote.
They have re-drawn county lines etc to mean that fewer votes will be needed for Rs to get in in various places (gerrymandering)
Outgoing (defeated) governors have decreased the powers of their office so that the Dem replacements are hamstrung
In the elections for the senate the Republicans won fewer votes than last time round but actually increased their number of senators (quite important when you think that if there had been one fewer then there would have been the votes for witnesses and a proper trial).
The senate has blocked controls to stop more Russian interference

All of the above are ways to increase Republican control while having a decreasing share of the vote and becoming less popular.

So.... just making better ideas isn't gonna be enough if... your supporters aren't gonna be able to vote - and if they contest this then the courts will prevent them - and if more votes are needed to win each representative, and the Rs are gonna cheat again and so on...

 

[IdleRich]

Of course ideas aren't gonna hurt, but in the next election for the Dems to get in they will have to win by a lot. In the next election it will be harder still. This is what I mean about there being a serious chance of democracy ending in the US... and BJ is watching and learning. The Tories are already trying to curb the courts cos they keep stopping them doing populist but sadly illegal things...

 

[luka]

I don't believe in the conspiracy stuff tbh

 

[IdleRich]

But it's not conspiracy is it? All of the above happened. I don't think any of the above things are disputed at all... really, which bit is conspiracy?

 

[luka]

There's all sorts of conspiracies going on all the time.

 

[version]

I don't believe in the conspiracy stuff tbh

:crylarf:

 

[luka]

The weird mental bit is the focus on Russia. Maybe they did want to give things a nudge. But to focus on that to the exclusion of all other facts I think is mentally ill

 

[luka]

Who esle wants to influence out elections?

 

[luka]

What corporations what secret societies what nation states what factions what pressure groups what lobbyists

 

[luka]

He's baiting you, Rich. Don't get sucked in!

I'm not. I'm trying to explain basic science. Why do events happen. Don't be stupid. You're not stupid.

 

[luka]

I'm not. I'm trying to explain basic science. Why do events happen. Don't be stupid. You're not stupid.

Rich is not stupid. He understands maths. He got accepted to do higher maths at Oxford when he was 15. He understands this

 

[IdleRich]

That's the least important bit (the Russians) to be honest (albeit confirmed by the FBI etc) ignore that if it's difficult for you to swallow. The simple fact is that Republicans are trying to alter the rules to make it easier for them to win elections and they control enough of the machinery of state to make it possible. Just bit by bit but it all makes a difference. And the more on top they get the harder it will be to get out from under.

 

[IdleRich]

Cambridge... and I didn't go.

 

[luka]

That's the least important bit to be honest (albeit confirmed by the FBI etc) ignore that if it's difficult for you to swallow. The simple fact is that Republicans are trying to alter the rules to make it easier for them to win elections and they control enough of the machinery of state to make it possible. Just bit by bit but it all makes a difference. And the more on top they get the harder it will be to get out from under.

That, I understand. It's a brutal game.

 

[sadmanbarty]

idlerich has got the brain of dominic cummings, but the body of daniel craig so instead of being a weirdo blog advisor man he became a jet setting man of mystery who's always got a smoking russian blonde by his side