Brexit Day

[droid]

Its easy to see why remainers cant accept the result. Politics has always been a filthy game, but to use an awful football analogy - you always had sly fouls, refs looking the other way, questionable decisions, but it tended to all be within a certain margin. A grey zone of ambiguity where a certain amount of cheating was accepted, or at least tolerated.

Brexit was on another scale. The ref was bought, the lights went off in the stadium at crucial moments, legs were broken, objects thrown from the stands, blatant handballs. It was escape to victory x 1000, with the deciding goal coming after a serious of fouls in the 9th minute of extra time.

So when people say 'you lost get over it' the answer 'but you cheated' is a perfectly reasonable response. It doesn't matter that the other team played well, scored goals and had support, they still cheated, and to an extent never seen before in modern British politics. And of course, the stakes are far higher than a football match.

Obv the real lunacy was agreeing to the match in the first place, and a decision this important should have required at least a 60% margin.

Regardless, given everything we now know, in a sane country the result would be seen as illegitimate.

 

[baboon2004]

Brexit = football as run by Sergio Ramos, strangely enough

 

[luka]

This cheating thing has been a constant ever since that Bush election. Not saying it's not real. Not saying it is. Just that yelling cheat doesn't seem to have achieved much

 

[comelately]

Not being part of the solution is not as bad as becoming part of the problem.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I don't believe in the conspiracy stuff tbh

Of course you don't - that's because there's incontrovertible evidence for it!

 

[Mr. Tea]

Sorry, I know the discussion has moved on a bit and I've missed the last few pages but I couldn't not post this:

Brexit looks, to me, increasingly like an exercise in schadenfreude.

 

[IdleRich]

Yes, Droid's analogy is spot on... and the thing is, it doesn't matter so much about Brexit, it's that BJ has grasped that we're now in the super cheating world and he'll porogue parliament, weaken the courts and so on and play hardball outside of that grey zone (as Trump is doing) to get as far as he can. Conventions and stuff previously stopped people stretching the rules to and past breaking point, now they don't. And saying "Oh there's always been cheating" is totally the wrong answer cos it doesn't recognise how the game has changed.

 

[Mr. Tea]

OK, basically you are asserting that if you don't have complete and total understanding of something, whatever level of understanding you do have is irrelevant. That's complete and utter bollocks. It's not even thinking.

It's also weirdly analogous to Jordan Peterson's schtick, viz. "Don't bother being an activist and trying to change the world until you've got your own life perfectly under control and sorted out", which of course means never doing anything at all, because not even the most ostensibly successful people ever have their lives entirely sorted out as they would like them to be.

 

[baboon2004]

Yes, Droid's analogy is spot on... and the thing is, it doesn't matter so much about Brexit, it's that BJ has grasped that we're now in the super cheating world and he'll porogue parliament, weaken the courts and so on and play hardball outside of that grey zone (as Trump is doing) to get as far as he can. Conventions and stuff previously stopped people stretching the rules to and past breaking point, now they don't. And saying "Oh there's always been cheating" is totally the wrong answer cos it doesn't recognise how the game has changed.

I think it's also become clear to everyone just how badly suited the UK system is to preventing dictatorial behaviour, with barely any checks and balances (the ease with which Johnson just effectively deinstalled the Treasurer adds to this impression too - power can be centralised extremely easily with the will to do so). The illusion of this wonderfully well-balanced parliamentary and political system has been laid bare as just another piece in the British jigsaw of hubris.

 

[version]

It's also weirdly analogous to Jordan Peterson's schtick, viz. "Don't bother being an activist and trying to change the world until you've got your own life perfectly under control and sorted out", which of course means never doing anything at all, because not even the most ostensibly successful people ever have their lives entirely sorted out as they would like them to be.

That coming from a bloke who went around the world telling other people how to live whilst being hooked on prescription drugs and insisting that many of the Western world's ills were the fault of "postmodern neo-Marxists"...

 

[IdleRich]

Exactly, and it's the same in America, we're seeing this happen every day. It becomes apparent that the checks and balances didn't really do their job - it was just the gentleman's agreements between the top players (eg Obama could have done more executive orders, but when Trump came in he started firing out hundreds, there is nothing to stop that, it just looks bad) that stopped them pushing things. Now that's out the window and we see that the fetters that are supposed to limit and separate the powers and so on just aren't strong enough.

 

[version]

This cheating thing has been a constant ever since that Bush election. Not saying it's not real. Not saying it is. Just that yelling cheat doesn't seem to have achieved much

It does need to be yelled though. The left keep trudging into elections being told "you just have to come up with a strong message" as though anyone playing within the rules stands a chance when the opposition have completely abandoned them. You could turn up to droid's hypothetical football match as peak-Barcelona and it's not gonna matter if the opposition are just rugby tackling you left and right, the crowd are loving it and the ref is either corrupt or too intimidated to enforce the rules.

 

[Mr. Tea]

That coming from a bloke who went around the world telling other people how to live whilst being hooked on prescription drugs and insisting that many of the Western world's ills were the fault of "postmodern neo-Marxists"...

You'd have thought someone off their tits on benzos would be a bit more chilled out, wouldn't you?

 

[Mr. Tea]

Oh and anyone who wants to tell me it'd somehow be bad form to laugh at twats like this can fucking do one:

 

[version]

I reckon it's a pisstake, but impossible to tell these days.

Colin Browning
@ColinBrowning14
Brilliant weekend celebrating Brexit. Not been on here much. Sank a few yesterday down the local after an enthralling match down the King Power. Where are all the remoaning cyclists who were laughing at me months ago. He who laughs last laughs the longest.
3:38 pm · 2 Feb 2020·Twitter for iPhone

 

[luka]

It does need to be yelled though. The left keep trudging into elections being told "you just have to come up with a strong message" as though anyone playing within the rules stands a chance when the opposition have completely abandoned them. You could turn up to droid's hypothetical football match as peak-Barcelona and it's not gonna matter if the opposition are just rugby tackling you left and right, the crowd are loving it and the ref is either corrupt or too intimidated to enforce the rules.

If that's the case then everyone has to withdraw their support from the system. The Labour Party needs to refuse to participate in elections. We need to stop voting. That is the only solution.

 

[version]

If that's the case then everyone has to withdraw their support from the system. The Labour Party needs to refuse to participate in elections. We need to stop voting. That is the only solution.

I don't think that would do anything. The Tories would just win by default.

 

[comelately]

Welcome back Luka.

 

[luka]

I don't think that would do anything. The Tories would just win by default.

Don't be stupid

 

[luka]

Don't be stupid

They'd have no legitimacy whatsoever. This is a foolproof plan. Even comelately agrees with me