Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Oh shoot.
Keir Starmer
luka
Well-known member
whats wrong with that
Oh come on he's not permanently online.
Just to rewind a second, before we all start insulting each other under the guise of amateur psychoanalysis 'cos we don't agree politically, I was answering a post of Rich's, about why Starmer gets so much hate. I stand by what I said, it's primarily to do with him defeating another faction in Labour's forever wars.
This stuff has been going on since the party started. Attlee was chucking communists out of the party and trying to stop them taking over a hundred years ago. Militant tried to take over in the 80s.
Kinnock gave that famous speech:
“I’ll tell you what happens with impossible promises. You start with far-fetched resolutions. They are then pickled into a rigid dogma, a code, and you go through the years sticking to that, out-dated, mis-placed, irrelevant to the real needs, and you end in the grotesque chaos of a Labour council – a Labour council - hiring taxis to scuttle round a city handing out redundancy notices to its own workers".
Kinnock gave that famous speech:
“I’ll tell you what happens with impossible promises. You start with far-fetched resolutions. They are then pickled into a rigid dogma, a code, and you go through the years sticking to that, out-dated, mis-placed, irrelevant to the real needs, and you end in the grotesque chaos of a Labour council – a Labour council - hiring taxis to scuttle round a city handing out redundancy notices to its own workers".
IdleRich
IdleRich
Think he had it in the normal way
subvert47
I don't fight, I run away
Wrong question. I'm sure Keith and crew "care". But do they care enough to make meaningful change to improve those lives? Seeing as they seem happy for everything to stay much the same, the apparent answer to that question is "no".
craner
Beast of Burden
Ok, so you guys have a higher quality of ‘caring’? The faction with the greatest moral virtue?
shiels
_
craner
Beast of Burden
It seems to me that the movement preceded the manifesto and therefore the policies, including that one, which must have been the best one because it’s the one that is constantly given as an example of Corbynism.
It was the perception of ethical purity and moral virtue that was the core of it. The policies were not instrumental to that and, to an extent, they were even incidental.
It was the perception of ethical purity and moral virtue that was the core of it. The policies were not instrumental to that and, to an extent, they were even incidental.
craner
Beast of Burden
Discuss.
Well I think this is evidently true but then again, I would wouldn't I?
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
If Corbyn had cared more about "changing lives" than about being the big I Am then he'd have accepted that giving the Tories a bloody nose in 2017 was a reasonable high point for his career to end on, and stepped down as leader before his personal popularity started to drop like a stone (or had at least read the room and resigned *after* it began to drop) and it became obvious that Labour wasn't going to win the next election with him in charge.
This is disengenuous. Starmer is just as moralistic as the Corbynites, from the other side. And history will judge him to be even more of a moralist. Compared to an Erdogan or Putin, he has absolutely terrible political instincts. Instead of co-opting the corbyn factions into his own project (which any right leaning politician in Turkey with any sense would have done) he made martyrs out of them.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
It's true that he's lacking in the charisma department, no question. But then, Boris Johnson has bags of charisma. It might help someone become the leader of a party, or even PM, but it's an axis that's orthogonal to ideology, I think.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I can more easily imagine Diane Abbott replacing Rachel Riley on Countdown than permitting herself to be 'co-opted' by Starmer.