Election 2020

line b

line b

Well-known member
I imagine theres plenty in the GOP that think they can run a Trump clone that's slightly less iconoclastic and they'd be fine. That does raise questions as to how much credit Trumps iconoclasm can be attributed to his success, but it could be Trumps opened the door for future candidates to capitalize on that same energy without having to do/say the especially acerbic things to generate it. Also I imagine theres plenty that think this is an easy trump victory if not for an unprecedented public health crisis.
 
line b

line b

Well-known member
Linebaugh said:
I imagine theres plenty in the GOP that think they can run a Trump clone that's slightly less iconoclastic and they'd be fine. That does raise questions as to how much credit Trumps iconoclasm can be attributed to his success, but it could be Trumps opened the door for future candidates to capitalize on that same energy without having to do/say the especially acerbic things to generate it. Also I imagine theres plenty that think this is an easy trump victory if not for an unprecedented public health crisis.
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in response to version before he tucked tail. hes trying to make me look crazy
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Linebaugh said:
I imagine theres plenty in the GOP that think they can run a Trump clone that's slightly less iconoclastic and they'd be fine. That does raise questions as to how much credit Trumps iconoclasm can be attributed to his success, but it could be Trumps opened the door for future candidates to capitalize on that same energy without having to do/say the especially acerbic things to generate it. Also I imagine theres plenty that think this is an easy trump victory if not for an unprecedented public health crisis.
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"Trump clone"?! Whatever you think of the guy, it surely has to be admitted that he's sui generis?
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
version said:
a narrow win or loss for Biden's seen as a problem for the Dems and requires a period of reflection, but a narrow win or loss for Trump validates him and the GOP can just carry on as normal
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there's a couple things there

GOP establishment is yoked to Trump - both personally and as the embodiment of populist backlash - so they don't have any choice but to go all in on him to the bitter end, whatever that is. I'd recommend @craner's Palin essay (and his and my follow-up comments) for anyone who wants to go into that in more detail, but the GOP has been playing with this fire for decades and it finally jumped out of their control, the question is to what extent that fire can outlast Trump personally.

otoh for Democrats the relative closeness of the election - the popular vote is a clear Biden victory w/exactly the same margin as 2016, but it's still a 51-49 kind of victory, not a landslide - makes it clear 2016 was not an aberration. the question again is to what extent that's due to Trump personally/general discontent w/American ruling class vs actively preferring GOP. the one thing I think the DNC etc should really be troubled by is Biden's struggles with Latino voters outside Florida. the GOP has been trying to offset demographic change by somehow attracting Latinos without losing its nativist base, and if its managed to square that circle - or it turns out more assimilated Latinos don't care as much about immigration etc - then it's potentially a real problem for the idea that demographic change almost universally favors the Democratic Party.
 
line b

line b

Well-known member
I'm just saying I think you can be a renegade outsider tough guy with all the same Trump talking points without being as indecent. Especially since Trump has done the preliminary work and you merely need to tip the hat to him. And I'm talking incremental degrees of lessening intensity. But I guess this all depends on post election diagnostics. trump frightening off voters that might have otherwise voted republican might not end up being a difference maker.
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Linebaugh said:
I imagine theres plenty in the GOP that think they can run a Trump clone that's slightly less iconoclastic and they'd be fine. That does raise questions as to how much credit Trumps iconoclasm can be attributed to his success, but it could be Trumps opened the door for future candidates to capitalize on that same energy without having to do/say the especially acerbic things to generate it. Also I imagine theres plenty that think this is an easy trump victory if not for an unprecedented public health crisis.
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yeah I think that's all right - as I said the question for everyone is what to extent this is Trump as singular figure vs Trump as expression of underlying causes. clearly it's something of both but I don't think anyone really knows which is more true.

the idea that Trump opened the door for Trump-lite candidates is interesting (and depressing). how accurate is is hinges on the same question of how central Trump is to his own success, but one thing you can say is that Palin (again, read the essay if you haven't) clearly opened the door for Trump, albeit for him to come in and hijack the Jeffersonian/Jacksonian/etc fantasy she sincerely believes in to his own far more cynical ends. another thing could say is that Trump has obviously shifted the Overton window for how candidates talk, behave, etc - which again, crumbling of democratic norms.
 
version

version

Well-known member
padraig (u.s.) said:
another thing could say is that Trump has obviously shifted the Overton window for how candidates talk, behave, etc - which again, crumbling of democratic norms.
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Greg Gianforte, the guy who body slammed a journalist three years ago, was just elected governor of Montana.
 
S

Simon silverdollarcircle

Well-known member
Yeah one thing I've been thinking about Trump is that for all the massive adultation he gets from the base, he's not very good at politics is he? Like he succeeds despite himself. All the needless crises, own goals (the whole injecting bleach stuff), pissing off former allies.

You get someone with his bat shit views and showmanship, but who's actually vaguely competent in politics and they'd be unbeatable
 
Leo

Leo

Well-known member
Linebaugh said:
I imagine theres plenty in the GOP that think they can run a Trump clone that's slightly less iconoclastic and they'd be fine. That does raise questions as to how much credit Trumps iconoclasm can be attributed to his success, but it could be Trumps opened the door for future candidates to capitalize on that same energy without having to do/say the especially acerbic things to generate it. Also I imagine theres plenty that think this is an easy trump victory if not for an unprecedented public health crisis.
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version

version

Well-known member
Simon silverdollarcircle said:
Yeah one thing I've been thinking about Trump is that for all the massive adultation he gets from the base, he's not very good at politics is he? Like he succeeds despite himself. All the needless crises, own goals (the whole injecting bleach stuff), pissing off former allies.

You get someone with his bat shit views and showmanship, but who's actually vaguely competent in politics and they'd be unbeatable
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Is it possible to have those batshit views and be competent though?
 
Leo

Leo

Well-known member
lots of disappointing news for dems, but holy shit GEORGIA is still undecided?! big news if that trend continues.
 
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