Election 2020

Murphy

Murphy

cat malogen
Start with reforming of parts of the NHS, mental health specifically and the absolute fucking disgrace that shames itself by adopting the label social care. You could bolt on dentistry (no British teeth jokes here colonials) and opticians, where the former get away with shameful levels re fees. Try finding an NHS dentist who doesn’t have a 12-16month waiting list.

Schools and universities need a serious overhaul, more difficult to assess with Covid but the former isn’t good enough and the latter is grossly bloated and self serving. Any educators here want to chime in?

Boris cited Rooseveltian action. Just words. If certain industries are getting hammered by Covid, like hospitality, an integrated training pathway for people to work for the NHS would be a vote winner and an ideal pre-emptive strike at all the other crap the current administration passes as policy.

As much as Covid poses multiple complex challenges, there are opportunities here and the best option short of the usual party political incompetences is to ‘get involved’ (boot-strap style) and allow compassion to direct your choices by moving into these sectors as best you can.
 
Leo

Leo

Well-known member
sadly, MAGA will go down in history as one of the more successful and effective branding initiatives, certainly within the political realm. the beauty is in the simplicity. there's an essence to it that's universally appealing -- who wouldn't want to be great? -- and also vague enough to allow people of all walks to project their specific desires.

it's means nothing, yet encompasses everything.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Leo said:
sadly, MAGA will go down in history as one of the more successful and effective branding initiatives, certainly within the political realm. the beauty is in the simplicity. there's an essence to it that's universally appealing -- who wouldn't want to be great? -- and also vague enough to allow people of all walks to project their specific desires.

it's means nothing, yet encompasses everything.
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version said:
Do people respond to down to earth material politics anymore? I've seen it repeatedly argued that one of the problems with the left is they have no grand vision to inspire the masses. The same was said of Remain in the EU referendum.
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Both absolutely right.

In the context of Brexit, the EU is enormously complex and the benefits that the UK enjoys - or enjoyed - are hard to explain in a simple way and, for most people, arcane and boring. (I make no claim to have a deep understanding myself.) And any intelligent and honest person will admit there are downsides too. So a pro-EU argument that encompasses all that stands no chance at all against an emotive and extremely simple slogan like "Let's take back control." I mean duh, who doesn't like being in control?

The only statement of comparable simplicity that the Remain side was left with was "If you support Brexit then you're a racist", which even if it's true in many cases is clearly not true by definition, and simply backfired by alienating people who might otherwise have been receptive to an argument that tried to make them feel good, not bad. Same as Clinton's stupid "basket of deplorables" comment.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
One of the big challenges is that the populist Right is good at making people feel good about themselves, whereas the Left all too often seems motivated mainly by demonstrative self-loathing and confessions of collective guilt, while the centre is synonymous with bloodless technocracy.
 
Leo

Leo

Well-known member
so many democrats are such bedwetters, no wonder "owning the libs" has become a national pastime.
 
version

version

Well-known member
Yeah, just fuck him up really. As I recently read somewhere, "The moral high ground is not an effective bulwark against fascism."
 
Leo

Leo

Well-known member
also, he'll have no audience to cheer him on at the debate. he might be a little off in his attacks, since he feeds off the applause (and craves the attention/adoration).
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Leo said:
it's means nothing, yet encompasses everything
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well

Umberto Eco said:
Fascism was a fuzzy totalitarianism, a collage of different philosophical and political ideas, a beehive of contradictions
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in re MAGA see also - as I know we've discussed before - Roger Griffin's conception of "palingenetic ultranationalism"

Roger Griffin said:
a distinctive permutation of the myth that the nation needs to be, or is about to be, resurrected Phoenix-like from the forces of decadence which, without drastic intervention of the forces of healthy nationalism, threaten to extinguish it forever
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if not an eerily perfect description of the last 4 years and especially the last few months, post-George Floyd, of Trump etc rhetoric, idk what is

as always I'm against overly easy use of "fascism", but in terms of literally slipping toward fascism, if the shoe fits
 
version

version

Well-known member
What do you think happens long term if Trump loses? I don't mean in terms of contesting the election result etc. I mean if he's gone for good where do the GOP and his base go? Also, can't he run again at the end of Biden's first term if he loses in November? Imagine that.
 
Leo

Leo

Well-known member
padraig (u.s.) said:
well

in re MAGA see also - as I know we've discussed before - Roger Griffin's conception of "palingenetic ultranationalism"

if not an eerily perfect description of the last 4 years and especially the last few months, post-George Floyd, of Trump etc rhetoric, idk what is

as always I'm against overly easy use of "fascism", but in terms of literally slipping toward fascism, if the shoe fits
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I Lived Through Collapse. America Is Already There.
How life goes on, surrounded by death

I lived through the end of a civil war. Do you know what it was like for me? Quite normal. I went to work, I went out, I dated. This is what Americans don’t understand. They’re waiting to get personally punched in the face while ash falls from the sky. That’s not how it happens.

This is how it happens. Precisely what you’re feeling now. The numbing litany of bad news. The ever rising outrages. People suffering, dying, and protesting all around you, while you think about dinner.

...

I was looking through some old photos for this article and the mix is shocking to me now. Almost offensive. There’s a burnt body in front of my office. Then I’m playing Scrabble with friends. There’s bomb smoke rising in front of the mall. Then I’m at a concert. There’s a long line for gas. Then I’m at a nightclub. This is all within two weeks.

...

If you’re waiting for a moment where you’re like ‘this is it’, I’m telling you, it never comes. Nobody comes on TV and says ‘things are officially bad’. There’s no launch party for decay. It’s just a pileup of outrages and atrocities in between friendships and weddings and perhaps an unusual amount of alcohol.

Perhaps you’re waiting for some moment when the adrenaline kicks in and you’re fighting the virus or fascism all the time, but it’s not like that. Life is not a movie, and if it was, you’re certainly not the star. You’re just an extra. If something good or bad happens to you it’ll be random and no one will care. If you’re unlucky you’re a statistic. If you’re lucky, no one notices you at all.
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luka

luka

Well-known member
this makes it sound like watching Robocop or something. I might have to look it up on YouTube. Sounds really cool

Cry, the beloved country. Donald Trump ensured Tuesday’s first US presidential debate was the worst in American history, a national humiliation. The rest of the world – and future historians – will presumably look at it and weep.

More likely than not, according to opinion polls, his opponent Joe Biden will win the November election and bring the republic back from the brink. If Trump is re-elected, however, this dark, horrifying, unwatchable fever dream will surely be the first line of America’s obituary.
 
sufi

sufi

lala
luka said:
this makes it sound like watching Robocop or something. I might have to look it up on YouTube. Sounds really cool

Cry, the beloved country. Donald Trump ensured Tuesday’s first US presidential debate was the worst in American history, a national humiliation. The rest of the world – and future historians – will presumably look at it and weep.

More likely than not, according to opinion polls, his opponent Joe Biden will win the November election and bring the republic back from the brink. If Trump is re-elected, however, this dark, horrifying, unwatchable fever dream will surely be the first line of America’s obituary.
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It was kinda like that actually,like a cartoon gameshow version of politics
a pinnacle of disfunction and unreality - absolutely no connection between showing up well in these performances and running a country,
unfortunately the need to retain some measure of seriousness undermines the potential for it to be much more entertaining,
they should be in wrestling garb and maybe on rollerskates or something
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
It does feel as though team Trump is getting desperate for money, their ads are increasingly aimed just at the base and becoming more aggressive requests - almost demands - for money.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
“If the president thinks his best case is made in urine, he can have at it,” said Kate Bedingfield, Biden’s deputy campaign manager. “We’d expect nothing less from Donald Trump, who pissed away the chance to protect the lives of 200,000 Americans when he didn’t make a plan to stop Covid-19.”
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Right.
 
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