Do we really want out?

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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
yeah boring.

Also if my only worry was being considered an outsider by straight society it would be better than what I have now, which is basically a surveilled brown disabled bi man. Who is either mad and needs to be guarded under lock and key, or demonised as a potential radical islamist in waiting. As if white gays can't be viciously racist. Cough cough Peter Tatchell attending Trevor Phillips islamophobic conferences.
 
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boxedjoy

Well-known member
I don't believe that everyone who wanted to go raving in '92 was able to do so, and I don't think it's fair to pretend it was a egalitarian utopian activity - even though I was four years old then, I know that in my fifteen years of "going out" I've learned that it isn't like that now at all. If it had been I would have definitely been out more. And I know I've got a decent level of social privilege and my intersectionality position is low!
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
'intersectionality position' fuck off.

This is exactly why people vote right wing.

We ain't weird abstractions for you to play with on a scale to be subsumed into some do gooder victim narritive.
 
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boxedjoy

Well-known member
thirdform said:
We ain't weird abstractions for you to play with on a scale.
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which is literally the point I'm making about "all under one roof raving" messages - neither you nor I are tokens and to be treated as such in narratives about people coming together is patronising and simplistic. This is why I'm keen to point out my perspective comes solely from my position as a gay man who passes as UK-white too, because I can't and wouldn't claim to speak for someone else.
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
boxedjoy said:
which is literally the point I'm making about "all under one roof raving" messages - neither you nor I are tokens and to be treated as such in narratives about people coming together is patronising and simplistic. This is why I'm keen to point out my perspective comes solely from my position as a gay man who passes as UK-white too, because I can't and wouldn't claim to speak for someone else.
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There's no all under one roof messages. That's shit ibiza house+techno crackers invented. It's not like that in London. It's much more rough, semi-ghetto.

Bore off with the intersectional talk and appreciate things for what they are. To neglect the *pivotal* role of the black working class in rave culture is a very house and techno derived narritive. i mean, i love house and techno, but the way that most people consume it in this country (and disco, for that matter) is weirdly racist paternalising. Only they have the understanding of black music with their university+crit theory education whilst the plebs don't.

Pitching up Victor simonelli records up by +20 and chipmunk 'ardkore is much more faithful to disco, I'm sure you've said as much.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
boxedjoy said:
wheich is literally the point I'm making about "all under one roof raving" messages - neither you nor I are tokens and to be treated as such in narratives about people coming together is patronising and simplistic. This is why I'm keen to point out my perspective comes solely from my position as a gay man who passes as UK-white too, because I can't and wouldn't claim to speak for someone else.
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This is doomed to failure. Too university. Too far removed from actual human beings who were there. And made it happen.
 
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boxedjoy

Well-known member
like I admit, I was four in 1992, I only speak as someone who lived through club culture as a recent pastime.

black working class culture is what made it happen but white cultural tourism is why the myths exist. The story of the lads going to Ibiza and discovering ecstacy and coming back to the UK and launching fanzines and clubnights strips away the roots of rave and reframes it as white experience. And that's why I find the narrative so uncomfortable - it's been rewritten and reshaped by people whose investment is different.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
you've got this mad idea that "narratives about people coming together" were top down propaganda broadcasts from the BBC to indoctrinate people. You don't seem to grasp how the thing worked at ground level. Who was running the show. Who was actually out there. And that's because you've only heard the stories through watching telly.
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
paradise club islington rave. couples shouldn't even smile at each other. Barred faces. keep it moody as hell.

Rolling a spliff and passing it to you without even looking at you is really the one.
 
B

boxedjoy

Well-known member
luka said:
you've got this mad idea that "narratives about people coming together" were top down propaganda broadcasts from the BBC to indoctrinate people. You don't seem to grasp how the thing worked at ground level. Who was running the show. Who was actually out there. And that's because you've only heard the stories through watching telly.
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but that's the story that's lived on, isn't it?
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
Obviously the further people get in time and space from those events the more that kind of simplification can take hold. But as third says no one in London has even heard of Paul Oakenfold.
 
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