the old internet as psyche

V

version

Well-known member
Clinamenic said:
Theres actually a trend in the dweb/web3 "social industry" (IE developers and fellow nerds who want to create better social media experiences) toward what is called the "cosy web" which essentially is niche community-based social circles. Sorta like reddits/etc but with more of an emphasis on communal governance and self-sovereign ownership of content (IE rather than twitter owning the tweets).
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Until I started reading about this stuff recently, I didn't realise there were still alternative networks to the web you can use, e.g. Gopher.
 
Clinamenic

Clinamenic

Binary & Tweed
version said:
Until I started reading about this stuff recently, I didn't realise there were still alternative networks to the web that you can use, e.g. Gopher.
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I'm not familiar with Gopher, but yeah I bet there are some leftover OG cypherpunk networks, as well as some of the newer stuff I'm mentioning.
 
V

version

Well-known member
Clinamenic said:
Theres actually a trend in the dweb/web3 "social industry" (IE developers and fellow nerds who want to create better social media experiences) toward what is called the "cosy web" which essentially is niche community-based social circles. Sorta like reddits/etc but with more of an emphasis on communal governance and self-sovereign ownership of content (IE rather than twitter owning the tweets).
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There's a tension between this idealised democratic internet and what actually happens when everyone gets online. You see it with subreddits as they get bigger, the content drops off a cliff. The Pynchon sub me and @linebaugh were on was great for a while then slid into people just posting pictures of their books and tattoos.
 
Clinamenic

Clinamenic

Binary & Tweed
version said:
There's a tension between this idealised democratic internet and what actually happens when everyone gets online. You see it with subreddits as they get bigger. The content drops off a cliff as more people arrive. That Pynchon sub me and @linebaugh were on was great for a while then eventually slid into people just posting pictures of the books or their new Pynchon tattoo.
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Totally agree, and the DAO space is filled with it too - the joke is that DAO actually stands for "dudes arguing online."

Its a great way to put democratic ideals to the test, and usually have them wither away pretty rapidly haha. You can give people direct governance capabilities over collective decisions, but because these decisions are usually complex (if they're about important things), most people don't end up really exercising those rights, and the whole system usually (and naturally) gets slanted toward those who are more outspoken and/or motivated.

Its crazy that the DAO space has seen all this profound governance-related innovation, like the ability to have totally liquid democracy at scale without centralized representatives, but almost none of it gets mainstream recognition, what with all the scams sucking up the mainstream attention.

But yeah, to your point about quality, a lot of these democratic experiments involve wasting a lot of time and energy on people who don't really know what they're talking about, or don't know how to engage in respectful dialogue with those whom they disagree with.

Of course thats more of a factor when there are matters of governance, especially with a shared treasury at stake, but what you seem to be describing is more like a salon or discussion group being diluted by shitposting - another drawback of being open/democratic, as opposed to maybe an invite-only discusison group.
 
V

version

Well-known member
Clinamenic said:
Its crazy that the DAO space has seen all this profound governance-related innovation, like the ability to have totally liquid democracy at scale without centralized representatives, but almost none of it gets mainstream recognition, what with all the scams sucking up the mainstream attention.
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It's not as though it's in the mainstream's interest to promote that sort of thing though, is it? They don't want decentralisation. They'd be undermining their position.
 
Clinamenic

Clinamenic

Binary & Tweed
version said:
It's not as though it would be in the mainstream's interest to promote that sort of thing anyway though, is it? They're the mainstream. They don't want decentralisation. They'd be undermining their own position.
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Very true, and thankfully there are major universities that have blockchain governance programs/conferences now, so it could get adoption that way, rather than through mainstream media. But yeah, it’s pretty profound stuff.
 
william_kent

william_kent

Well-known member
version said:
Until I started reading about this stuff recently, I didn't realise there were still alternative networks to the web you can use, e.g. Gopher.
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a new one is Gemini

Gemini is a new way of using the Internet, separate from the World Wide Web you are familiar with. Compared to the WWW, it is intended to be:

  • Simpler – Gemini pages aren’t programs that run in your browser like most modern websites are; they’re just text with a little formatting, so there are no surprises. Once you know how one Gemini page works, you know how they all work.
  • Human Scale – Gemini servers and clients aren’t written by big, monopolistic software companies the way web browsers are; the DIY ethos of Gemini means that complete applications can be written by individual developers or small groups in a reasonable amount of time. That also means that you have more choices compared to web browsers.
  • Distraction Free – Gemini pages are text-only and have simple typography. You can view images, watch video, or listen to music over Gemini, but nothing will ever autoplay, pop over what you’re reading, or jump out of the way of your mouse.
  • Privacy Protecting – Every Gemini request is independent of every other, so there’s no way to track you between sites. Every site you visit is protected by the same encryption used by banking and eCommerce sites on the WWW.
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V

version

Well-known member
When I look at this old internet stuff, I think of McLuhan's notes on Burroughs:

"Each technological extension involves an act of collective cannibalism. The previous environment with all its private and social values, is swallowed by the new environment and reprocessed for whatever values are digestible. Thus, Nature was succeeded by the mechanical environment and became what we call the “content” of the new industrial environment. That is, Nature became a vessel of aesthetic and spiritual values. Again and again the old environment is upgraded into an art form while the new conditions are regarded as corrupt and degrading."
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And this line of Xenogoth's:

"Arthur C. Clarke's assertion that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" has begun to lose its potency. Today, it is more often the case that any *sufficiently redundant* technology is indistinguishable from magic."
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There's a mystique to it now. The way there is with those old book covers discussed in the other thread. I'm picturing a waveform tracing inception to rise to fall to subsequent peaks facilitated by having fallen in the first place. If something's rediscovered then it doesn't lose something by having fallen, it gains something.
 
G

gremino

Moster Sirphine
Been browsing a lot of old internet-style sites recently - inspiring stuff. There is longing for the old web. Here's bunch of links I gathered:

Search engine for lightweight / old web-style sites:
https://wiby.me/

Cool old style website:
https://sadgrl.online/

Articles:
http://felix.plesoianu.ro/web/plain-old-webpages.html
https://neustadt.fr/essays/the-small-web/
https://benhoyt.com/writings/the-small-web-is-beautiful/
https://ar.al/2020/08/07/what-is-the-small-web/
https://blog.danieljanus.pl/2019/10/07/web-of-documents/
https://www.jackcheng.com/the-slow-web/
https://flamedfury.com/manifesto/

Tiny sites:
https://1mb.club/
https://512kb.club/
https://250kb.club/
https://10kbclub.com/
 
sufi

sufi

lala
gremino said:
Been browsing a lot of old internet-style sites recently - inspiring stuff. There is longing for the old web. Here's bunch of links I gathered:

Search engine for lightweight / old web-style sites:
https://wiby.me/

Cool old style website:
https://sadgrl.online/

Articles:
http://felix.plesoianu.ro/web/plain-old-webpages.html
https://neustadt.fr/essays/the-small-web/
https://benhoyt.com/writings/the-small-web-is-beautiful/
https://ar.al/2020/08/07/what-is-the-small-web/
https://blog.danieljanus.pl/2019/10/07/web-of-documents/
https://www.jackcheng.com/the-slow-web/
https://flamedfury.com/manifesto/

Tiny sites:
https://1mb.club/
https://512kb.club/
https://250kb.club/
https://10kbclub.com/
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haha aral balkan is the only person ever to block me on twitter
 
G

gremino

Moster Sirphine
version said:
Some cool stuff on that site. Bunch of articles on eschewing the mainstream internet in favour of text-based forums, sites on other networks, platforms with higher barriers to entry.
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version said:
There's a tension between this idealised democratic internet and what actually happens when everyone gets online. You see it with subreddits as they get bigger, the content drops off a cliff. The Pynchon sub me and @linebaugh were on was great for a while then slid into people just posting pictures of their books and tattoos.
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Inclusion can be tricky thing. I'm all for inclusion and accessibility, I hate elitism, but when jerk users and vapid posts arrives to the community, do you then have to accept them in the name of inclusion? That wouldn't be reasonable anymore IMO, and I think it doesn't yet make you an elitist for creating higher barrier to entry to keep the community exciting, vital and something special. "Posting pictures of their books and tattoos" isn't harmful as such, like jerk users, but they do decrease the community's "something special" however. But, higher entry barrier doesn't have to be excluding, e.g. invite only, but as simple as "boring looking" text-heavy minimalist site, which doesn't attract non-enthusiasts.
 
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