thirdform

pass the sick bucket
leftists always bang on about meritocracy but meritocracy can only exist within a globally planned communism, that is to say not on talent but on scientific merit and efficacy.
 

sus

Moderator
Americans are more temperamentally PvE in their thinking, a holdover from frontier and farming days. Whereas the French are more temperamentally PvP, because they've been urbanized much longer. PvE players tend to be naive true believers and PvP players tend to be scammy cynics. America has become more PvP as time has gone on and urbanization played out
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
You are being purposefully obtuse. It's not about intelligence nor is it about town planning. It's about belief. Do you want your to citizens, bureaucrats, and leaders to be naive true believers or scammy cynics?

I told you. I don't care. If they want me to care they can be scientific.

My old man is a true believer in his ideals but half of what he chats is absolute crap. and it takes him about 20 years to realise it, by which point he's regretful. Your hippy degenerates encourage palliative passivity, even when making money. A little less hard work, a little more psychosis, let the real out, make sure that the symbolic cannot contain it.
 

sus

Moderator
Not exactly skid row... but of course everything is relative, does he even like golf?
Actually word is he wanted to live in Central/South America, or some cheap Caribbean island (a beach town there is a financially comparable option to living in a very shitty part of the U.S.). Something maybe more adventurous, see some of the world. But his wife, who is younger than him by a decade or two, is some species of agoraphobic and won't travel/leave the home/get on planes and that plus the accident means he never did that, either.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
only Americans could ruin lsd. It's why you invented conspiracy loons like Luke.

The true power of psychedelics is psychosis.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Americans actually believe that sex will cure everything. this is a civilisation which has reduced everything to a single pleasure nerve centre and deprived the species of its barbaric hymns. It is quite useful to see Marquis De Sade as presaging the criticism of American mass culture, nearly 200 years before Christopher Lash.
 

version

Well-known member
Actually just read an American more or less saying that.

Pynchon is, with Blake, Shelley and Emma Goldman, one of the frontline militants of sexual love as an antidote to authority and control. In one of the book’s great set-pieces – “a brief segment of a much longer chronicle, the anonymous How I Came to Love the People” – we are given to understand that against “Their” sinister plot of death and nihilism, we can always rely on “horny Anonymous’s intentions”:

" ... nothing less than a megalomaniac master plan of sexual love with every individual one of the People in the World –."
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Actually just read an American more or less saying that.

Right, which is why De Sade is better than all of those authors, because he understands that pleasure is an absolute authoritarian act. pleasure can destroy to create, but this does not mean that it is immune from routinisation or even mirroring Christian/Islamic/Jewish(etc,etc) prohibition.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Ronaldo is not a hugely technical player. He's very fast but he needs to be the main man in a team. For me Bergkamp is the apex of technicality. Granted I have my own biases.
But at 17 he was extremely skilled with super fast feet... he chose to go in one direction from there and it's hard to say he was wrong... but at the same time one can't help wondering what might have been...

But I'd agree he never had that poetic beauty in the way he touched the ball that Bergkamp did, I'm not sure Messi does either. If we're talking about pure aesthetic touch in caressing the ball... hmmmm... Bergkamp is one of the all-time greats... who else springs to your mind? I hate to admit it but Henry is up there, um, Zidane is another... Emile Heskey of course, be interested to hear what @version thinks... Iniesta, actually I think the most impossible natural touch I've ever seen is probably Ronaldinho.
 

sus

Moderator
Americans actually believe that sex will cure everything. this is a civilisation which has reduced everything to a single pleasure nerve centre and deprived the species of its barbaric hymns. It is quite useful to see Marquis De Sade as presaging the criticism of American mass culture, nearly 200 years before Christopher Lash.
Lol your empire refused to print books and then they collapsed, so forgotten by history that your average millennial Murican is more likely to know what an "ottoman" foot stool is than an ottoman "empire." Better luck next round! Istanbul will make a great remote work destination for California code boys once soft US global imperialism wraps
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I think magical is exactly how to think about vigor

It has to to with the ability to harness inarticulable forces. To get energy and power from places that aren't mapped. To use feel and "vibe" over programmatic logic orlaw. Vigor is spirit, rigor is letter. Vigor is religion (in its true, non-cargoculted, pre-institutional form) and rigor science. Rigor is about drilling and vigor is about passion.
But vigour is also to do with actual, yunno, powerful power as I understand it. There are players with magical talent, let's say Le Tissier, but who are lazy and slow and lack the things that I think of when I hear the word vigour. If you are seeking to describe the dichotomy between the hardworking, dedicated and regimented path to success on the one hand vs with free-form, spontaneous creativity on the other then I feel that - sadly, given the neatness of the rhyme - rigour/r doesn't quite capture it I feel.

But whatever, we clearly have a different understanding of the definition of one particular word and that's something that is not really that important or interesting - I do now realise and understand both the concepts you are trying to get across and the opposition between them to which you refer and how we label that overall thing and its constituent parts is neither here nor there.

I am not upset that someone tagged this "grandpa's a cuck" but I do think "cuck" isn't the right word for it. it's almost the opposite pathology, which involves not living up to the responsibilities of power, and caring too much about his dignity

I'd agree what you described doesn't fit my understanding of a cuck. I am really interested to know how the man reacted to the whole thing - particularly so cos, in my experience of capitalism, the winners tend to be convinced that all of their success was entirely down to their hardwork and skilful decision-making, with the result that they judge those who have not been so successful (by the metric that the system imposes) as lazy and or stupid. It's one of the things I find most frustrating, to see some stupid billionaire lecturing people on how to succeed like he did, totally failing to realise that there are countless others who acted in the same way but due to one or more moment of luck did not end up wealthy and who are therefore invisible cos of the selection bias which means that only the winners end up interviewed. This lack of empathy and cast-iron belief in their own genius which I see repeated again and again is something that appears to be horribly damaging to society as a whole, especially cos these people, by dint of being on top of the pile, tend to have a disproportionate say in how society is organised and how it perceives those defined by the wealthy as "losers".

I often wish that such heartless winners would get the chance to lose all their money for a day and see whether they would gain any empathy. So, while I don't mean to wish any ill on your grandfather, I would like to know the following

a) When he was wealthy and on top, did he ascribe his success entirely down to his own personal attributes and actions?
b) When the system turned on him and kicked him in the goolies, how did he react?

I suppose that I would like to further split b) into some options - did he see what happened as his own failure or some freakish bad luck or did it cause him to blame the system itself and then to question it? And did it make him think differently about those that he'd previously dismissed as failures (assuming that he did think that)
 
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Clinamenic

Binary & Tweed
what was your SAT score btw? @Clinamenic ?
If my memory serves me correctly and the maximum score is1400, I believe I was ~1360. If the maximum is higher then, naturally, so would my score be. Also worth noting is the fact that I was the first one done not only in my assigned classroom, but quite plausibly of all classrooms on the site for that day.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
You got forty wrong! Forty! Is that a remedial score that means you have to go to a different school or is there some way you can get help and continue in normal education despite doing so badly?
 

sus

Moderator
Rich—sadly don't know! Never was very close with him. Visiting him in Georgia soon though maybe it will come up.

Oof 1360/2400, that's not very good is it
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Lol your empire refused to print books and then they collapsed, so forgotten by history that your average millennial Murican is more likely to know what an "ottoman" foot stool is than an ottoman "empire." Better luck next round! Istanbul will make a great remote work destination for California code boys once soft US global imperialism wraps

is that why your lads constantly shit the bed thinking about China obliterating them? Does not sound like a civilisation on an upward ascent.

Also fucking hell Gus, your lads couldn't even subdue a bunch of medieval clans in Afghanistan! Absolutely pitiful! Even the Brits who you so despise had more success!
 
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