The Republican War on Transgender People, Drag Queens, and Queerness in General

[DannyL]

That comment about The Killers really rankled, huh?

 

[Murphy]

Have Mussolini down as a lazy centre-back, never tracking back, scared of headers to the extent he dive salute/punches to clear corners

Nearly missed this significant contribution about cadaver fucking

 

[Mr. Tea]

then why did he name them?

(just to pluck a random example out of the air)

 

[Mr. Tea]

There's about five different conversations going on in this thread and all of them are terrible.

 

[IdleRich]

I doubt any woman in any team in the world would make any top men's team. Or even a Division Two team. The men are much stronger, they kick the ball much harder and the pace of the game is a lot faster. Probably the England U-18 team could beat the women's team. Similarly, if you ask how many of Tottenham's Premiership team would get in their women's team, obviously every single one of them.

But the pertinent question is how many of the Tottenham men would get in if they'd been on female hormones for 18 months. The answer there is rather less clear. They'd be bigger but have a severely reduced muscle mass to carry it. Do they have an advantage or a disadvantage?

I'd guess that bulk still counts for something in football in that you'd be much harder to push off the ball. But I'm just guessing. This is why there is sports science and why each sport makes its own rules, rather than just going with simplistic "men" ruining women's sports bullshit.

Yeah didn't the US Women's national side lose to a school boy team (checked - they lost 5-2 to Dallas under 15 side in a friendly - well obviously a friendly, there is no other circumstance in which they could meet). The women's game has come on a lot but it's still light years behind the men's, the gulf is huge, there is no female player who could possibly play at the level of the premiership.

 

[DannyL]

On the whole I'd definitely consider it a triumph, a vary rare one. But I also understand the logic of the opinion that, for certain issues, disagreement isn't optimal.

A facile illustrative example would be necrophilia. I likely wouldn't consider it a triumph if Dissensus hosted a wide breadth of perspectives on necrophilia.

Yeah, I get what you're saying but I think this isn't really a high traffic or heavily moderated space so that also effects things.
Padraig has pointed out at length how friends of his are impacted, are directly suffering - polite disagreement doesn't really sit well with me with that in mind.

 

[Mr. Tea]

@subvert47 I imagine a footballer in the situation you've described would probably be in the awkward position of being disadvantaged compared to cis-male players while still having a big advantage over cis-female players.

 

[Benny Bunter]

Tbh, while I obviously could have chosen any football team to make my point, I chose Tottenham specifically just to take the piss out of TF.

I know it's a serious issue and that but you lot are absolutely fucking hilarious!

 

[Mr. Tea]

I don't subscribe to that concept though? (Nice little trick learnt from Mussolini's parliamentary career to falsely deflect eh?) I am thankfully not a feminist, and never have been, so I don't need to think with these ideological categories. But logically, according to the radical feminism being advocated in this thread, sex segregation must implicitly lead to misogyny through grounding male biological supremacy.

And come on, you can fuck off with this coy "but I don't actually think that, haha, fooled you, you big idiot" rubbish. You said "it's misogynist to claim [women] are ipso facto inferior and must be protected and segregated in sports." Those are your actual words.

 

[Mr. Tea]

And come on, you can fuck off with this coy "but I don't actually think that, haha, fooled you, you big idiot" rubbish. You said "it's misogynist to claim [women] are ipso facto inferior and must be protected and segregated in sports." Those are your actual words.

Fairly weasely words, it has to be said, since obviously nobody here is taking the position that being inferior at football makes women inferior in general, as in, less deserving of respect, opportunities, or legal rights.

 

[thirdform]

And come on, you can fuck off with this coy "but I don't actually think that, haha, fooled you, you big idiot" rubbish. You said "it's misogynist to claim [women] are ipso facto inferior and must be protected and segregated in sports." Those are your actual words.

and you can fuck off with your trying to catch me out routine cos it's bait. Yes, they are my words. The feminist worldview advocates womens equality yet in sporting says they are at a disadvantage. Which one is it? The fact that you deflect with biological facts aren't anything to do with egalitarianism completely vitiates any point you may consider making.

Communists are not equality advocates or egalitarians, so this is a false problem for me.

 

[thirdform]

Tbh, while I obviously could have chosen any football team to make my point, I chose Tottenham specifically just to take the piss out of TF.

I know it's a serious issue and that but you lot are absolutely fucking hilarious!

I'm glad you chose Tottenham though, cos I think they are shit. both mens and womens team. I wouldn't have any spurs men play in an Arsenal womens team!

 

[thirdform]

Fairly weasely words, it has to be said, since obviously nobody here is taking the position that being inferior at football makes women inferior in general, as in, less deserving of respect, opportunities, or legal rights.

oh bbog off you pseudonymous controversy monger. Answer me this question then. Why are the terfs so fixated on trans women participating in sports If as you perspicaciously note, they are at a disadvantage relative to cis males. Answer it or stop falsely imputing positions to me. No deflections. Answer it!

 

[Mr. Tea]

and you can fuck off with your trying to catch me out routine cos it's bait. Yes, they are my words. The feminist worldview advocates womens equality yet in sporting says they are at a disadvantage. Which one is it? The fact that you deflect with biological facts aren't anything to do with egalitarianism completely vitiates any point you may consider making.

Communists are not equality advocates or egalitarians, so this is a false problem for me.

OK, you win, feminism is a total pile of horseshit. Happy now?

 

[Mr. Tea]

oh bbog off you pseudonymous controversy monger. Answer me this question then. Why are the terfs so fixated on trans women participating in sports If as you perspicaciously note, they are at a disadvantage relative to cis males. Answer it or stop falsely imputing positions to me. No deflections. Answer it!

I already have, you nutter: they're still at an advantage over cis-female athletes!

 

[thirdform]

OK, you win, feminism is a total pile of horseshit. Happy now?

thank Allah for that, now convince benny of that. My work is done.

 

[thirdform]

I already have, you nutter: they're still at an advantage over cis-female athletes!

but according to the logic which you and benny argue with, which makes you want to covet a bromance bedroom, feminism is a womans movement, is it not? not a cis womans movement!

Because if it is exclusively a cis womans movement, then we can go even further. Only for the white americans, only for white upper class americans, only for western European white upper class Americans (I.E: not Italian greek or Arab.) only for cis, western european, white, able bodied, upper class Americans. How far do you want to go with your segmentation? Either you are a universal womans movement or you are condemned to subdivide into ever more smaller groupuscules.

For terfs, trans women are simply not women. This is why they see them as encroaching upon what they perceive to be the defence of a womens movement. Hence why they make a huge deal about the non-issue of sports and bathrooms. But you can't see that, and are like well yeah 'has a point.'

 

[DannyL]

On a serious note—

DannyL, I find you wilfully blind and abhorrent, no offense though. But everything I've seen you post has displayed close-mindedness and a fear/rejection of the Other in its deepest sense

To be serious for a second, you don't get the best of me on here. I can't be bothered mostly to make long posts anymore and certainly in some of the political threads I'm reacting to annoyances years in duration.

 

[Clinamenic]

Really? I think necrophilia is one of the least morally problematic/complicated questions out there. Much easier than incest, certainly. It's a one-party behavior and therefore the damage to society minimal (in a way which agrees with Padraig's rendering of gender affirmative care/teenage transition and why it shouldn't be as regulated as, say, antibiotic prescriptions).

Yeah it’s more just unsavory than societally damaging, I suppose.

 

[Clinamenic]

There's about five different conversations going on in this thread and all of them are terrible.

Perhaps we all deserve a palate cleanser: anyone curious about the state of the art of zero-knowledge blockchain technology?