The Republican War on Transgender People, Drag Queens, and Queerness in General

sus

sus

Moderator
version said:
You'd hope at least some of them will have second thoughts about their position now it's led to being in the street, arm in arm with neo-Nazis.
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I mean, I think the actual people who were arm-in-arm on the street should take a long hard look at themselves. But I don't think that it's unusual for ~respectable causes to find support from detestable corners. Politics is a long history of disavowal—e.g. black activism has a long history of coincidence/alliance with anti-Semitic groups, but I don't think that discredits a project of black liberation.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
I suppose it does damn the movement, insofar as it signals that e.g. black activists' larger priority is the advancement of black interests, and not some abstract vision of a post-prejudice world. But, one, this is all group advocacy and basically all politics, literally nobody except autists cares about abstract principles; two, I don't think the abstract principles are damaged by this concrete affiliation.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
sus said:
I suppose it does damn the movement, insofar as it signals that e.g. black activists' larger priority is the advancement of black interests, and not some abstract vision of a post-prejudice world.
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Does it even do that, though? I mean the most virulent antisemites around are the straight-up neo-Nazi groups, whose views on black people are well known. So any black-power group prepared to make common cause with those guys just because of a shared hatred of Jews clearly cares more about hating Jews than about promoting the interests of black people generally.

Likewise, the views of far-right groups on gender relations tend to be, shall we say, robustly traditionalist, so any supposedly feminist groups who are happy to march shoulder to shoulder with them must hate trans people far more than they actually support feminism in general.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
Mr. Tea said:
Does it even do that, though? I mean the most virulent antisemites around are the straight-up neo-Nazi groups, whose views on black people are well known. So any black-power group prepared to make common cause with those guys just because of a shared hatred of Jews clearly cares more about hating Jews than about promoting the interests of black people generally.
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Yeah but the Black Hebrew Israelites and Black Power and Nation of Islam varieties of anti-semitism are meaningfully different strains from Nazi ideology. There's also a ton of pro-Palestinian anti-Zionism that comes from progressive camps generally. I don't think these people are choosing to "make common cause" with neo-Nazis.

Nazis also didn't come down very hard on blacks, presumably for similar reasons that they allied with the Japanese.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
Silence in the thread as the 'progressives' call for an urgent safeguarding review.

This is the problem: when the 'not wanting to let the side down' tribalist ethic turbocharges the bone-headed British default of 'not wanting to make a fuss' you end up with the potential for enormous safeguarding f-ups.

Consultants suspected that Lucy Letby was bumping off babies but didn't say anything because they 'didn't want to make a fuss'. It beggars belief.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
mixed_biscuits said:
Oh look:

www.thetimes.co.uk

Latest news & breaking headlines

The latest breaking UK, US, world, business and sport news from The Times and The Sunday Times. Go beyond today's headlines with in-depth analysis and comment.
www.thetimes.co.uk www.thetimes.co.uk

View attachment 14723
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Presumably, then, you believe the extensive rap sheet of Harvey Weinstein means all heterosexual men in the entertainment industry should be banned from having any contact with women?
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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The 'not wanting to let the side down' is a real problem for progressives: they make the stakes so high (if you're unprogressive, you're a nazi and basically exiled from the community of imaginary friends) that no-one can wants to be seen to concede any ground.

That's why no progressive will touch the lower-age limit for surgery question on this thread: they'll just be undercut by another progressive, called a nazi and excommunicated.

And because they won't touch any matters that are differences in degree with the 'enemy' their positions are lacking the substance required to be credible to anyone outside of the clique.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
mixed_biscuits said:
That's why no progressive will touch the lower-age limit for surgery question on this thread: they'll just be undercut by another progressive, called a nazi and excommunicated.
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Yes, it's a total mystery where this association could have come from, isn't it?

droid said:
Some of Benny's mates at a TERF rally in Australia yesterday

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Leo

Leo

Well-known member
What's the answer, Mixed? You like to pose gotcha questions, point fingers, make blanket accusations. What's your answer to these questions? What's our solution (hopefully not a final one) to these situations?
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Leo said:
What's the answer, Mixed? You like to pose gotcha questions, point fingers, make blanket accusations. What's your answer to these questions? What's our solution (hopefully not a final one) to these situations?
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You won't, of course, get a meaningful or honest answer out of him. This is a man who thinks 20 million dead from covid is no biggie, any attempt to prevent or slow the spread is massive government overreach, and anyone who disagrees is a snowflake - but also that one drag queen with sex crime convictions means all of them should be lined up and shot.
 
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