Well that's obviously not what I'm talking about. I explicitly affirmed a balance that combines both non-toxic femininity and non-toxic masculinity. And look, your anti-intellectualism is showing. You think MAO is a good thinker. That's your problem.
The Feminine Perspective against the Manosphere
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
What about women, though? Do they need to have masculine aspects to them in order to be balanced people?
Yes. But the point is that the patriarchy does more to stop men from acting feminine than it does to prevent women from acting masculine. So it's more exigent right now to promote male femininity. The patriarchy penalizes men for their femininity much worse than it hurts women for their masculinity. I believe ghost's recommended feminist author made this point repeatedly, but then it seem pretty clear that ghost never actually understood her work.
0bleak
A Liniment's Evil Work
If it's going to severely limit the women that are attracted to them (I won't say sexually select for them since I guess we have to throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to using that term) to engage with "their femininity", why would men do that?
I understand your argument. But you're missing the point. Most feminine men don't choose to act feminine they just are feminine. I've acted feminine literally my whole life. So the point is NOT to make masculine men more feminine. It's to create a safer more welcoming space for feminine men and show more men that femininity is a viable option. Furthermore, the point is also to show that embracing femininity can be a useful tool to mitigate toxic masculinity, as much toxic masculinity arises from a man's refusal to ever act feminine. I see no evidence that women find femininity unattractive in men. Women do often complain about men refusing to act feminine. They complain about men not expressing their emotions, not being sensual, not caring about their partner's pleasure, not being sensitive, etc. If anything, women don't reject feminine men, they just want men who combine masculinity and femininity in ways attractive to them. Any man who would refuse to act feminine out of fear of seeming unattractive is deeply insecure in his masculinity anyway, so the femboy who is secure in his masculinity is more likely to be more attractive than the insecure trad
0bleak
A Liniment's Evil Work
I wish you could have lived my life to have seen the countless times I've experienced the opposite with countless women, and seen/heard women dissing men and/or decided they were no longer interested in a man because they did something they perceive as feminine.
You have a point, but again don't act feminine if you don't want to. My goal is to make the world a better place for men who DO act feminine.
The real question is did these women who insulted feminine men, did they also demand that men act feminine? Don't overgeneralize. Many women today do demand that men act feminine, e.g. sensitive, emotionally available. I don't think a woman who asks her man to show his emotions will then lose attraction for him if he gives her what she wants and expresses his feelings. If a woman says she likes sensitive guys, I'll show her my sensitivity, and if she loses attraction to me because of that, she gets dumped.
If the same women demanding that men act feminine also lost attraction to their men once he did act feminine, then we would have a problem. But it's not clear that's true. I don't think that women are blatantly making contradictory demands of men.
ghost
Well-known member
Once again, you're unable to distinguish reference from endorsement.
LMAO, thanks for proving my point Mr. Anti-Intellectual! Read Irigaray, then we'll talk.
vershy versh
Well-known member
There are people who talk like that about everything, think about the podcast bros who love bringing up 'dopamine' and 'neurochemicals'.
vershy versh
Well-known member
What people say they want, or feel they should want, doesn't necessarily align with what they actually want.
0bleak
A Liniment's Evil Work
heheh, I don't want to do any kind of acting (including masking my disabilities). That's why I never venture to the outside world anymore.
I don't know if I would say the men were "feminine", but women did "demand" they be more masculine in the way that they were no longer sexually interested because of some perceived femininity.
Perhaps not, but my point was more about how is it going to be possible to get men to be more feminine if that severely limits who is interested in them.
shakahislop
Well-known member
if only we had a woman to weigh in on this. if you go back into old threads i think there was one in about 2008
vershy versh
Well-known member
No, don't. She's boring.
It is bad strategy to assume women constantly lie about their desires. It's also a strategy favored by the Red Pill. Maybe some of you have more in common with the manosphere than we thought? Besides if a woman ever lies to me about her desires she gets dumped.
Right, but acting more masculine doesn't make me less feminine and vice versa. I can act more masculine and more feminine without decreasing either my masculinity or femininity as a conseqence. Maybe those women didn't know that, but that's there problem.
I don't think it does. Plenty of women are attracted to male femininity. Why else would they explicitly ask men to act more feminine, e.g. sensitive, etc.
Anyone who doesn't read philosophers because they're "boring" is not allowed to do big kid philosophy!
vershy versh
Well-known member
It isn't exclusive to women. People's thoughts and actions often diverge from their words and professed ideals.
If writing to a dead Nietzsche as though he were your lover and waffling on for ages is 'big kid philosophy' then they're not missing much.
0bleak
A Liniment's Evil Work
I can only go by my personal experiences where I had literally _exponentially_ more women interested in me when I presented and acted more masculine (stoic, "tough", facial hair, manner of dress, whatever). I'm going to trust my experiences over being told something else.
Why would women lie, en masse, about wanting feminine men?
And why should any man care about a woman who lies about her desires?
They're missing a lot more than you'll ever know if you keep it up with superficial interpretations like this!
Also if you don't know why Irigaray is required reading for nearly all feminist scholors, you're missing out on A LOT.