The Crisis of Masculinity

[...]

The fact that your posts arouse these feelings in others here, namely that many here seemingly aren't willing to take your posts at face value and instead seem to view them as naive or even lame, is a testament to how hard it is to arouse interest in the feminist vision of masculinity you describe. It's tough, appealing to masculine vigor without abandoning egalitarian ideals. Really I'm just saying the response you seem to keep getting is a testament to how hard it is to change the cultural status quos around masculinity. That said, this place is still quite liberal, in the grand scheme of things.

I agree!

 

[Clinamenic]

To malelesbian's credit, he does seem to abstain from the shrill condescension characteristic of the liberal academic milieu, speaking as a liberal pseudo-academic myself.

 

[WashYourHands]

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[shiels]

The fact that your posts arouse these feelings in others here, namely that many here seemingly aren't willing to take your posts at face value and instead seem to view them as naive or even lame, is a testament to how hard it is to arouse interest in the feminist vision of masculinity you describe. It's tough, appealing to masculine vigor without abandoning egalitarian ideals. Really I'm just saying the response you seem to keep getting is a testament to how hard it is to change the cultural status quos around masculinity. That said, this place is still quite liberal, in the grand scheme of things.

Is it like that that though? Is this chat not just like someone walking into a war zone being like did any of you guys consider just being cool and peace and stuff?

 

[Clinamenic]

Is it like that that though? Is this chat not just like someone walking into a war zone being like did any of you guys consider just being cool and peace and stuff?

I mean, I agree that the culture war isn't likely to be pacified by discussion, but also agree with ol' ML that the left doesn't seem to recognize the importance of male role models, or when they do recognize the importance of it, they gloss over the sort of virility which tends to be characteristic of male role models. Its a lot like those discussions we had a while back about the left not being able to reckon with sexiness and primal urges as well.

 

[...]

Is it like that that though? Is this chat not just like someone walking into a war zone being like did any of you guys consider just being cool and peace and stuff?

The way I see it, compassion, unconditional love, and community will release us from the shackles of toxic masculinity. If you have an alternative solution, I'd love to hear it.

Don't forget, the hippies ended the Vietnam War! Peaceful tactics can get us farther than you think.

 

[Clinamenic]

Sure, there are exceptions, but if the left's vision of masculinity, especially for white males (at least in the US), is one of being constantly apologetic and self-villainizing, its no wonder why such standards are difficult to popularize beyond the university culture.

 

[shiels]

The right more easily channels sexual and aggressive urges maybe yeah. There’s then undeniable hierarchy to eg sexual attractiveness and status that left theory finds difficult to reconcile

 

[william_kent]

unfor

Don't forget, the hippies ended the Vietnam War! Peaceful tactics can get us farther than you think.

no, the Viet Cong destroyed the US through guerrilla warfare, the hippies were no use whatsoever, too smacked out to care, if they engaged then it would be termed "virtue signalling" today

hippies ended the Vietnam War

such a western centric view

i expect better of you

 

[WashYourHands]

Those are some damn fine flowers though

 

[WashYourHands]

David Bellamy in a grow room

 

[william_kent]

ex Viet Cong run some of the best grow rooms in the UK, no doubt

 

[...]

unfor


no, the Viet Cong destroyed the US through guerrilla warfare, the hippies were no use whatsoever, too smacked out to care, if they engaged then it would be termed "virtue signalling" today



such a western centric view

i expect better of you

Do you think peaceful protests are pointless then? The hippies' protests had an undeniable effect on the culture. So did MLK. And yes we lost the Vietnam War, but we also lost the War on Terror, yet that went on way longer than Vietnam and there weren't nearly as much protests against it.

And look, we certainly can't use violence to end the culture war. At the end of the day, the culture war will only end when both side engage in an open dialogue. And yes, there are extremists, mainly on the right, who it's no use talking to, Nazis, and the like. To stop those people, America just needs stronger hate speech laws.

 

[shiels]

Sure, there are exceptions, but if the left's vision of masculinity, especially for white males (at least in the US), is one of being constantly apologetic and self-villainizing, its no wonder why such standards are difficult to popularize beyond the university culture.

That’s the problem with America you don’t know who to be

The way I see it, compassion, unconditional love, and community will release us from the shackles of toxic masculinity. If you have an alternative solution, I'd love to hear it.

Don't forget, the hippies ended the Vietnam War! Peaceful tactics can get us farther than you think.

no yeah I agree go for it. Don’t think anyone is stopping you here

 

[...]

That’s the problem with America you don’t know who to be

Who do you think America should be?

 

[william_kent]

Do you think peaceful protests are pointless then? The hippies' protests had an undeniable effect on the culture. So did MLK. And yes we lost the Vietnam War, but we also lost the War on Terror, yet that went on way longer than Vietnam and there weren't nearly as much protests against it.

not what I said, but I've been on enough marches to know they are pointless

but give the Viet Cong credit - they wrecked the US, destroyed morale

you can't surely give a bunch of privileged white kids credit for the retreat from Saigon?

when there were Vietnamese women and children running up to Yankee with bomb in hand



23 skidoo - FUCK YOU G.I.

demonstrating more commitment than you or I

 

[...]

not what I said, but I've been on enough marches to know they are pointless
you can't surely give a bunch of privileged white kids credit?

Maybe I can't give them full credit, but hey, if you're going to be a privileged white kid, you might as well be politically active.
If marches are pointless, what kinds of non-violent tactics do you support?

Also, I'm sorry, what is that voice in the song you posted? Respectfully, it sounds like a death rattle.

 

[WashYourHands]

War on bullets never achieved anything when there are nukes in the equation either

Everything is still in place and upgraded transnationally, it’s 5 Eyes vs China et al plus Joe Biden met aliens

 

[william_kent]

Also, I'm sorry, what is that voice in the song you posted? Respectfully, it sounds like a death rattle.

It says "G.I. FUCK YOU"

 

[shiels]

Who do you think America should be?

Obliterated! Only joking. But any place founded on genocide is going to have an amnesiac traumatic drive to assert identity isn’t it? Especially for young men like yourself surfing it’s decline, there’s a deep collective unconscious or maybe partly conscious shame that animates everything you do and you think you can solve it by telling everyone you’re a lesbian