The Crisis of Masculinity

[Clinamenic]

Malelesbian what about this vision of masculinity (keeping aside the homoerotic undertones throughout this film):

 

[WashYourHands]

constant themes of oral sex

possible impotence leading to compensatory pleasure giving rewards via mouth and tongue

possible eye contact hang up re first point

possible episcopal background in boarding school

a religious crisis of worldviews shifting as the reality of colonising Mars detours into the Metaverse


if you’d like my professional opinion

 

[malelesbian]

Obliterated! Only joking. But any place founded on genocide is going to have an amnesiac traumatic drive to assert identity isn’t it? Especially for young men like yourself surfing it’s decline, there’s a deep collective unconscious or maybe partly conscious shame that animates everything you do and you think you can solve it by telling everyone you’re a lesbian

I certainly never said my male lesbianism is an antidote to colonialism! It's interesting to think that the genocidal origins of America influence the current widespread focus on identity politics. I just don't know enough about post-colonialism to comment any further

 

[malelesbian]

Malelesbian what about this vision of masculinity (keeping aside the homoerotic undertones throughout this film):

Well I don't know. Maybe I need to see the full film to get the context? I guess male lesbianism would oppose the violence of the rifle and the pony. And the image of an individual solitarily trekking through the west sort of goes against my collectivism.

I wonder what a feminine cowboy would be like.

 

[Clinamenic]

Well I don't know. Maybe I need to see the full film to get the context? I guess male lesbianism would oppose the violence of the rifle and the pony. And the image of an individual solitarily trekking through the west sort of goes against my collectivism.

I wonder what a feminine cowboy would be like.

Actually you may find Destry Rides Again to be a good example, where Jimmy Stewart plays a newcomer deputy who refuses to use guns.

 

[shakahislop]

we are talking about the anglo world presumably. i don't think there is a crisis of masculinity. a lot of the men vs women stuff is a made up internet talking game i think.

 

[shakahislop]

regardless of all the stupid shit people say feminism writ large is still one of the most potent and successful forces for equality at the moment. most importantly its winning.

 

[sus]

Why do you ask?

If you're in New York we can chat, grab a brewski, cut through the all this

 

[malelesbian]

If you're in New York we can chat, grab a brewski, cut through the all this

I won't be in NY til December, and I don't drink, but that sounds fun!

 

[shiels]

we are talking about the anglo world presumably. i don't think there is a crisis of masculinity. a lot of the men vs women stuff is a made up internet talking game i think.

I think so. The heart of it all is obviously sex and the lack thereof, people projecting and universalising their rejection

 

[shiels]

I would ask this male lesbian when masculinity was not in crisis? When was masculinity stable? Is insecurity and instability not precisely the core of masculinity and what would it mean to fix or tame it, how would that look?

 

[shiels]

Im not just taking the piss here I’ve spent a time thinking and working on this stuff in a mental health context which is why I’m so irritable and bored

 

[linebaugh]

well people are having less sex, that is a unique thing in the recent history, though the line between that and specifically masculinity isnt one to one.

 

[shiels]

Some people are having less sex. Sexual activity, like wealth is being concentrated

 

[linebaugh]

the boring answer is that its all an alienation thing. everyone hates working and has no friends and the atmosphere is ambiently suicidal and if you fix that no one would bother with gender questions much.

 

[shiels]

Yes I think that’s the right answer though. I don’t think Marx would be to fussed with this stuff because it’s very much downstream of the real rifts

 

[WashYourHands]

 

[WashYourHands]

 

[mixed_biscuits]

To malelesbian's credit, he does seem to abstain from the shrill condescension characteristic of the liberal academic milieu, speaking as a liberal pseudo-academic myself.

Yes, that's what gets up the forum's nose, that someone can have the same opinion but present it with clarity and without condescension, thereby shaming the pseuds and their mutton-as-lamb carry on. It's like Tim Allen has turned up half way through a Neil Degrasse Tyson lecture and made the same points in an off hand comment to the audience while fixing a fault with the grand bloviator's microphone.

It's like a Guardian writer has decided to write their Marxist article in a way that would be comprehensible to working class people rather than for cultural studies lecturers.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

I mean, I agree that the culture war isn't likely to be pacified by discussion, but also agree with ol' ML that the left doesn't seem to recognize the importance of male role models, or when they do recognize the importance of it, they gloss over the sort of virility which tends to be characteristic of male role models. Its a lot like those discussions we had a while back about the left not being able to reckon with sexiness and primal urges as well.

The left don't understand it because they are less virile themselves. They are less sexually dimorphic and they identify with this lack and its potential resolution in androgyny.