mixed_biscuits
_________________________
I can't help feeling that the thumbs ups and the fire for this post were less to do with its factual correctness but with its confident return to a business-as-usual condescension.
The Crisis of Masculinity
- Thread starter malelesbian
- Start date
linebaugh
Well-known member
This thread is about specifically why 'the left' doesnt have a jordan peterson/joe rogan type male role model right? Its not about male role models in general its about specifically why the left doesnt have a guy that says pull your pants up and read kapital. And that begs the question is that even a coherent pyschology? The desperate search for a daddy is inherently a reactionary impulse no? The left has had older male 'role models' in the past - mark fisher, david graeber - but no one was calling them father figures.
linebaugh
Well-known member
Even now the guys on the chapo trap house podcast and hasan are wildly popular and have everyman sensibilties (love movies, gaming, sports, hate wokeness) but i guess they dont count because they dont tell their followers to take showers?
I dont see the left ever producing this 'father figure' type the way the right does, its contradictory. And I dont mean that in the sense that the left is above
father figures, i mean that I cant imagine a person whose interested in leftism also being interested in getting the daddy quotient in a jordan peterson like package. I think something like old school marxist discipline would have the same effect but thats never going to get popular enough to be an answer to the jordan peterson dilemma
I dont see the left ever producing this 'father figure' type the way the right does, its contradictory. And I dont mean that in the sense that the left is above
father figures, i mean that I cant imagine a person whose interested in leftism also being interested in getting the daddy quotient in a jordan peterson like package. I think something like old school marxist discipline would have the same effect but thats never going to get popular enough to be an answer to the jordan peterson dilemma
shakahislop
Well-known member
there's been loads of left male role models, especially for people who are just coming of age. zack de la rocha would be one. pretty much everything to do with punk and hardcore as well.
it is interesting that its hard to think of one since the identitarian turn though
it is interesting that its hard to think of one since the identitarian turn though
shakahislop
Well-known member
there's an interesting thread in that musicians would have fulfilled this role once, and that that feels totally like a thing of the past now. its been superceded as a medium for that kind of thing.
sus
Moderator
That's right. We live in the age of the Drowned Father archetype. He was lost at sea, but his body was never found. His son insists he's still out there; he organizes a search party; in the process of searching, he becomes a man. By the time he discovers the body it's irrelevant—"The Father is dead; long live the Father!"
william_kent
Well-known member
I wish I could find a rip of the "men's group" documentary that must have aired on UK TV in the late 80s or early 90s ( I'm sort of sure of the dates because that's when I learned how to "abstract electricity" for our squat by reversing the polarity on the meter, which almost ended my life in a flash of blue light and molten metal, but it did power the 14 inch TV with "rabbit ears" on top )
but back then, "men's groups" would congregate in a field and a "shaman" would knock out a half-arsed rhythm on a bodhrán and when they were instructed to "let go" and "don't be afraid to release" we were presented with images of men hugging each other and crying:
"DADDY YOU NEVER LOVED ME!"
fucking hilarious, but we've not moved on
but back then, "men's groups" would congregate in a field and a "shaman" would knock out a half-arsed rhythm on a bodhrán and when they were instructed to "let go" and "don't be afraid to release" we were presented with images of men hugging each other and crying:
"DADDY YOU NEVER LOVED ME!"
fucking hilarious, but we've not moved on
wild greens
Well-known member
Left or right
Why do you need a theoretical online role model. Are you that lacking in substance that you need the media culture to hold your hand
It's such a dismal argument
Why do you need a theoretical online role model. Are you that lacking in substance that you need the media culture to hold your hand
It's such a dismal argument
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
Having just read Berne's Transactional Analysis psychotherapy, in which he identifies 3 ubiquitous ego states in every adult (the child, the adult, and the parent), I would have to say stereotypically the left is the child and the right is the parent.
The right can do a good caricature of a disapproving disciplinarian parent. When the left try moralising in the same manner they just come across as a snotty classroom tattletale.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I think John Eden might have mentioned it here a while ago, assuming it's the same thing.
It does seem desperately unfair that if your mum had been involved in something equivalent for women, you might mention it with half a smile, but if it had been your dad, it would be beyond cringe, by default.
I think you have to go on a group by group basis. I read something the other day with a bloke enjoying being part of a dads group just hanging out whereas his wife was struggling to set up a mums equivalent because a few of the mums couldn't stop arguing about inclusive language.
william_kent
Well-known member
you're aware of the "knitting wars"?
william_kent
Well-known member
had to give a sad face here because I have a few female friends ( they may be lesbians ) who feel that "womanhood" is not defined by having babies, and conversely, is a man defined by his ability to reproduce?
the "men's group documentary" I referenced earlier demonstrates that there are plenty of absent and bad dads, and I don't think we should hold them up to some sort of gold standard
A lot of people are, yeah. Have you not seen the Peaky Blinders motivational stuff?
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
As the husband of a keen knitter, I've had chapter and verse on this. After a point I stopped finding it funny and just found it desperately sad.
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
Nurse a dying father, see him die, report back with lessons gleamed