Homophobia and Phallic Culture in Hip Hop

[malelesbian]

@ghost of beiser made the ludicrous claim that homophobia is not prevalent in hip hop culture. He called me racist for criticizing the very real homophobia I have witnessed in hip hop as a matter of empirical fact. Beiser loves making personal comments about me. Well here's a fact about my personal life: I grew up in Brooklyn around hip hop culture. I have personally experienced more hip hop than probably any single one of you, but especially beiser. I am an authentic contributor to hip hop culture. Seriously, no one here can prove they're a bigger hip hop fan than me. But by all means, please try.

Beiser thinks that homophobia in hip hop ended when less than five artists came out as queer. There's so few queer hip hop artists that it's not even funny. But there's also been a long history of homophobia in hip hop, and I have personally witnessed it in my everyday life.

Here's a pop quiz: what was the first major hip hop song to make derogatory, homophobic comments about gays? This is a really easy question to me.

Beiser suggested we make a topic about this, so I'm taking him up on the his suggestion. Is hip hop homophobic or not? I say yes, despite recent progress in a pro-gay direction, the dominant culture in hip hop remains a homophobic, phallic one.

Suppose you don't believe that I'm a real hip hop head and you doubt that I've lived in the culural mileau of hip hop. I can still give numerous examples of homophobia throughout hip hop's history.

So let's play a game. I'll post an instance of homophobia in hip hop. Then you all will post one instance of pro-gay representation in hip hop. You can't use the same artist twice.

Here's my first instance of homophobia in hip hop, a classic in the history of hip hop homophobia:


If you want examples of phallic culture in hip hop, that's even easier for me to give. But let's not overcomplicate things just yet.

 

[malelesbian]

Come one, @ghost of beiser don't be pusillanimous. Post an example of pro-gay hip hop.

 

[william_kent]

before you object, New Orleans Bounce counts as regional hip hop in my book


Sissy Nobby - Gitty Up


Sissy Nobby - Crazy Bout My Boyfriend

or are you some 5 elements 5 boroughs "real hip hop" backpacker?

If you want examples of phallic culture in hip hop, that's even easier for me to give. But let's not overcomplicate things just yet.

^ I wouldn't expect less from Lord Jamar, that's not hip hop, that's 5% prison religion shit

 

[malelesbian]

are you some 5 elements 5 boroughs "real hip hop" backpacker?

To some extent, yes. I accept all kinds of hip hop as valid, but my favorite is real east coast hip hop

^ I wouldn't expect less from Lord Jamar, that's not hip hop, that's 5% prison religion shit

The teachings of the 5% nation is still fairly widespread in hip hop. It's basically most rappers' go to spirituality or philosophy. I also don't think the five percenters are entirely to blame for homophobia in hip hop, but they probably did contribute to it. Really it's the streets that are homophobic. White people from the streets are just as homophobic as black people from the hood. Which is another reason why it was ridiculous for beiser to claim that I'm racist for acknowledging homophobia in hip hop.

Here's an example of homophobia from one of the best and most mainstream rappers, DMX:

 

[william_kent]

I post pro-gay regional hip-hop and you counter with a guy who ate cat food while high on PCP?

why the negativity?

 

[malelesbian]

I post pro-gay regional hip-hop and you counter with a guy who ate cat food while high on PCP?

why the negativity?

LMAO good story, do you have an evidence of it though? I'm curious as to what interview that comes from. I've never minded DMX's expression of negative emotions. So few rappers are willing to be as vulnerable as he was. But it's true, his music does include some anti-social themes, of which homophobia is one.

Also, can anyone post an example of a lyrical queer rapper other than Tyler? So much of queer hip hop it seems to me, is glorified dance music. Not that there's anything wrong with that, and of course dance music has traditionally been a huge part of queer culture. But I listen to hip hop for lyrics, and the bounce tracks listed above barely even have verses. It's all hooks to dance to. I want a good 16 bar verse

 

[william_kent]

LMAO good story, do you have an evidence of it though? I'm curious as to what interview that comes from. I've never minded DMX's expression of negative emotions. So few rappers are willing to be as vulnerable as he was. But it's true, his music does include some anti-social themes, of which homophobia is one.

so, I'm extremely drunk and I've mixed up my pet food anecdotes

but..

DMX -- I've Eaten Dog Food​

 

[malelesbian]

so, I'm extremely drunk and I've mixed up my pet food anecdotes

but..

DMX -- I've Eaten Dog Food​

I mean...he does call himself "The Dog"...

 

[william_kent]

Also, can anyone post an example of a lyrical queer rapper other than Tyler? So much of queer hip hop it seems to me, is glorified dance music. Not that there's anything wrong with that, and of course dance music has traditionally been a huge part of queer culture. But I listen to hip hop for lyrics, and the bounce tracks listed above barely even have verses. It's all hooks to dance to. I want a good 16 bar verse

so you actually prefer "rap"?

 

[malelesbian]

so you actually prefer "rap"?

I enjoy both. But I am an MC. MCs and DJs are a part of hip hop, rappers are something different. That's the way I always learned it. But I'll always prefer whoever has the best lyrics, whether they're an MC or rapper.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

To some extent, yes. I accept all kinds of hip hop as valid, but my favorite is real east coast hip hop

malelesbian being a true skool 5 elements stan is intensely on brand

 

[william_kent]

@malelesbian

name the 5 elements?

I'll give you a head start

MC'ing
DJ'ing
Graffiti
Breakdancing

?

 

[version]

And malelesbianism.

 

[malelesbian]

Very interesting choices, Padraig.

Since no one answered my quiz, here's the first homophobic hip hop song and it's maybe the first hip hop song ever:

 

[malelesbian]

@malelesbian

name the 5 elements?

I'll give you a head start

MC'ing
DJ'ing
Graffiti
Breakdancing

?

I've always been taught that there are mainly only the 4 elements you listen. That's the mainstream view in hip hop, but I believe some add knowledge as the 5th element. Most of that knowledge comes from the 5 percenters though, so what people in hip hop call "knowledge" is more like a mixture of knowledge, mysticism, pro-black politics, metaphysics and spirituality. Also, I believe KRS One added street entrepeneurship (hustling) as another element. But my understanding has always been that most people agree on the 4 elements you listed as the canonical ones. Additional elements are non-canonical and open for debate. Much of this comes from oral history though, so you could probably find me an interview of one of the earliest members of hip hop saying how many pillars there are and what each one is and means.

Oh! And some people count beatboxing as its own element.

 

[william_kent]

Oh! And some people count beatboxing as its own element.

wow!

you got it, the OG definition!

( edit: bet you "googled" though? )

 

[malelesbian]

wow!

you got it, the OG definition!

( edit: bet you "googled" though? )

I did have to google it. Like I said, I grew up only knowing about the 4 pillars.

 

[william_kent]

I did have to google it. Like I said, I grew up only knowing about the 4 pillars.

but it's always been 5

 

[Clinamenic]

And malelesbianism.

ML'ing