Homophobia and Phallic Culture in Hip Hop

[william_kent]

full disclosure

I bought this 12" for 10p

and took it to so many seedy establishments to "play out" without realising that it goes for about £300 on the collectors markets

unaware that the spilled drinks would depreciate the imaginary market value


Juice People Unlimited - Spaced Out

top tune from the Disco Godfather OST

and if I had ever had run a club, "spaced out", that's what I would have called it, 'cos....drugs! fucking love thlklhj

 

[ghost]

To me, the best homophobic line in all of rap is on Nas' "Halftimes," a proper pun that slips right past.

Versatile, my style switches like a faggot
But not bisexual, I'm an intellectual of rap

I would like to think, if only out of self interest, that it is possible to be both a bisexual and an intellectual of rap. But I forgive Nas—we didn't know such things in the 90s.

 

[malelesbian]

To me, the best homophobic line in all of rap is on Nas' "Halftimes," a proper pun that slips right past.


I would like to think, if only out of self interest, that it is possible to be both a bisexual and an intellectual of rap. But I forgive Nas—we didn't know such things in the 90s.

.
You were the one saying there was so much pro-gay hip hop. Care to provide any examples?

 

[ghost]

I already provided five, which is more than everyone else on this forum combined. And it's not the 90s anymore. Nas hasn't said anything homophobic in a long time.

But I think if I post any gay rap, you're just going to call it phallic again, because you think that gay men are supposed to be effeminate.

 

[malelesbian]

That makes 5, so it's your turn.

This thread has two purposes: to critique homophobia in hip hop and to critique phallic culture in hip hop. So of course I will critique phallic content in gay hip hop. Most feminists critique the phallic portray of gay men and women as hypersexual sex objects. Why you don't I have no idea.
And I'm not saying that gay men are supposed to be any particular way, I'm just saying that, we should increase and improve cultural representation of feminine gays.

 

[ghost]

And I'm not saying that gay men are supposed to be any particular way, I'm just saying that, we should increase and improve cultural representation of feminine gays.

This guy's never heard of "feminine gays" before

 

[ghost]

Why would we want to increase the cultural representation of feminine gays if we don't want there to be more of them?

 

[malelesbian]

This guy's never heard of "feminine gays" before

You haven't?

Why would we want to increase the cultural representation of feminine gays if we don't want there to be more of them?

I do want there to be more feminine gays. I want to encourage as many people as possible to act feminine.

 

[ghost]

I'm not saying that gay men are supposed to be any particular way, I'm just saying that

I do want there to be more feminine gays.

pick one

 

[malelesbian]

pick one

Gay men don't need to act feminine. But feminine culture is underrepresented. Everyone should represent antiphallic culture more, gay or not. But no one needs to act any particular way. They just need to do good. And it's good to to represent marginalized cultures. But there are many different ways to do good and make the world better, so you don't even need to represent femininity if you don't want to.

 

[ghost]

 

[malelesbian]

What's wrong with different people being perfect in different ways? I'm a pluralist. I'm dedicated to the view that people should have multiple routes to the good life.

 

[entertainment]

There’s obviously an element of rap that is inherently opposed to concerns of bourgeoise morality such as sexual politics. Which is part of what makes it interesting, as the only popular artform that allows for an expression of extreme atavistic or anarchic drives.

What is a funny is that when people who evaluate art in terms of bourgeoise morality engage with rap, which for obvious reasons they are compelled to do, they completely disregard the misogyny, the unfettered (capitalist) greed, the fetish with violence and murder and all around priapic egomaniacal modelling of the man, but when someone says faggot it’s like an alert goes off and they are suddenly awoken from this frontal lobe stupor needing to say something. Sure, say something if you want. I'm sure it's adjustment rappers are willing to make in return for continued platforming. As rap is also not inherently homophobic in the first place, it just knows cynicism of a different order.

But where does this confidence is such clear lines come from? This certitude that one thing is authorially "felt", and another is categorically not? Anyone who takes an honest look at what are the vital forces coursing the music and its popularity would find that you can’t really separate one thing from another.

 

[ghost]

Seems pretty obviously that the bourgeoise moralist has interest in the slur because it acts as a symbolic figure of the moralist's control over the situation. The moralist of today knows that they can't win against rap, so their best bet is to convince everyone it's kayfabe.

 

[Mr. Tea]

You can always just say to yourself "Hey, at least it's not dancehall!"

 

[mixed_biscuits]

It's because the homophobic element is the only one that is perceived by white audiences to have a potential spillover impact on them; the impact of the rest is assumed to be safely ghettoised.

 

[malelesbian]

What is a funny is that when people who evaluate art in terms of bourgeoise morality engage with rap, which for obvious reasons they are compelled to do, they completely disregard the misogyny, the unfettered (capitalist) greed, the fetish with violence and murder and all around priapic egomaniacal modelling of the man,

Let's be clear: I have criticized all the elements you listed under the banner of phallic culture. Everything you listed counts as phallic culture. Beiser even tried to say he wouldn't give examples of pro-gay hip hop because I'd just consider it phallic. But it's true: even queer hip hop is often very phallic

But where does this confidence is such clear lines come from? This certitude that one thing is authorially "felt", and another is categorically not? Anyone who takes an honest look at what are the vital forces coursing the music and its popularity would find that you can’t really separate one thing from another.

Please go into more detail about this.

Seems pretty obviously that the bourgeoise moralist has interest in the slur because it acts as a symbolic figure of the moralist's control over the situation. The moralist of today knows that they can't win against rap, so their best bet is to convince everyone it's kayfabe.

Everyone who understands hip hop knows that it's kayfabe. Authentic voices in hip hop are few and far between, even in a culture that prizes authenticity. So much hip hop is myth-building. The "streets" or the "hood" is one such myth. Obviously the streets are very real to people who come from the hood, but so many rappers and MCs take their real experience of the streets and fictionalize it.

 

[shakahislop]

Obviously the streets are very real to people who come from the hood, but so many rappers and MCs take their real experience of the streets and fictionalize it.

it's a precursor to autofiction

 

[malelesbian]

it's a precursor to autofiction

I agree. There's a huge demand to hear rappers' life stories, but at the same it seems fans want all rappers to tell the same story: everyone busts their gun, sold drugs, is a playa, etc. When we demythologize the streets we open the door for rappers to convey a greater variety of narratives.

 

[shakahislop]

I agree. There's a huge demand to hear rappers' life stories, but at the same it seems fans want all rappers to tell the same story: everyone busts their gun, sold drugs, is a playa, etc. When we demythologize the streets we open the door for rappers to convey a greater variety of narratives.

i think it's already done. maybe in 1992 this was the case (i don't know i wasn't interested in rap as a toddler). rap slash hiphop seems to be one of the most busted open forms to me, people going on about anything.