mixed_biscuits
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What you want is irrelevant in hard determinism. It's gonna happen anyway.
How full of rage are you?
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other_life
bioconfused
'wanting' is a species of physical determination. 'indeterminate' in the sense of 'non-predictable' != 'not determined/determinable qua physical'
other_life
bioconfused
the distinction between self-determination / self-direction and 'free will' is politically salient. free will is basically the ideology of punitive institutions. it imprisons people in an antinomy of praise and blame
mixed_biscuits
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So when you drop a vase does it want to continue dropping and smash or does it want to go back up or does it not want anything at all.
mixed_biscuits
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But they can't do otherwise so what's the problem?
other_life
bioconfused
what is the relevance of something like a vase? its constitution compared to the human frame is quite simple
other_life
bioconfused
no - they can do otherwise. 'determined', 'natural' and 'necessary' are all synonymous, but not synonymous with 'inevitable'
mixed_biscuits
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But you are arguing for something you don't believe in here.
other_life
bioconfused
you don't know that. how do you know that?
mixed_biscuits
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@other_life have you ever been to a psychic medium or past life regression therapist?
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
You're wanking over aerial photographs of Salisbury cathedral right now, aren't you.
"Heh, heh. Got him!"
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
That's you, that is.
there's nothing to believe in or not to believe in. physical determinations are objective fact.
neither does determinism exclude choice, it just means that all choices are in the final instance determined by the material world, and hence it becomes a case of choosing between determinations.
Like I said, a pseudo-problem for new age malcontents. the problem only makes some sense if a soul which can be punished in an immaterial afterlife is factored into the equation.
Like I said, a pseudo-problem for new age malcontents. the problem only makes some sense if a soul which can be punished in an immaterial afterlife is factored into the equation.
But don't you see? I can trap you in a cuckolded dilemma here. Various events in the material world may determine that shagging and marrying your wife is a possibility, in which case I'm right, or various other events may determine me to want to marry my cousin, in which case, I'm also right!
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Immaterial souls that defy physical determinism by supernatural means are all very well, but putting @mixed_biscuits in the same sentence as "shagging" and "wife" is just too ridiculous a thing for me to even countenance.
mixed_biscuits
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Read up on quantum physics and the problems with the idea of causation per se e.g. in Celia Green's The Lost Cause.
Also, retroactive causation has been shown experimentally.
mixed_biscuits
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No, and no, back to the books for you.