The Hater's Thread

[SIZZLE]

And as a self identified wigger, I take exception with 'white people acting black'. I have put up with a lot of shit comments over the years by people who were uncomfortable with the way I dressed, spoke, wore my hair, what music I listened to and would just like to send a big FUCK OFF out to anyone who still has a problem with it.

I'm trying hard to phrase my comments negatively, this being the haterism thread.

 

[the undisputed truth]

say it loud...

...I'm white/black and I'm proud !!!

I don't so much hate the fronting just get slightly amused by some of my hiphop mates talking ghetto trash to me when they have no idea what it is to be truly ghetto...

...not pointing the finger at you sizzle but if you've ever talked ebonics and take a pound from ya dawgs don't you feel a bit disingenuous ???

 

[SIZZLE]

I talk ebonics all the time and giving a pound as a way of saying hello and goodbye is fully normal where I come from.

I don't feel disingenuous because I've been doing it since I was little, that's how me and my friends, black, white and other colors talk and act. I also wear baggie clothes, new era hats, etc. I'm comfortable with it, if it makes other people feel that I'm being disingenuous, they can dress and talk whichever way they feel comfortable with.

Also I'm not trying to claim that I am so hood or a thug or anything like this by dressing the way I do. For me it's a simple statement that I represent hiphop and choose to identify myself with it, just like all the punks, indie kids, dreads etc who are representing for their subculture.

And I'm not into black or white pride, I don't think it's constructive much from either side. You didn't do anything to be born the race you are, so what's to be proud of? I'm proud of my achievements, not my race. And as far as that applies to culture I think people should educate themselves and cherish, preserve and transmit their culture. Doing those things are actions worthy of being proud of, but simply being born one color or another is not an acheivement.

 

[zhao]

just for the record, I talk, dress, and act like Tony Leung in 2046.

 

[the undisputed truth]

I have no idea what race I am...

...and IMHO, hiphop is black american urban ghetto street culture that I would no more feel comfortable imitating than yanomamo indian culture from the amazon, even if I came from Brazil.

or being some caucasian dread in a reggae band smokn weed, signing patois and faking rasta culture which was based on emancipating the blackman...

Imagine me with red paint on, large earrings, a spear and loincloth getting round NZ chanting and dancing thinking I'm sth american indian just cos I watched national geographic and liked their artforms so I thought I'd just claim it for myself ???

you can't co-opt tenets of culture and appropriate it out of context and think yourself a legitimate practitioner...

...I don't think it works that way, maybe I'm wrong

how do you think black guys wearing boots, rune symbols and ballheads would go down in mainstream society ???

hiphop as co-opted by me is an attitude and a way of working collectively with like minded individuals outside of mainstream culture based on a shared appreciation of a certain aesthetic...

...nothing more, I no more dress, talk, dance act any different around anybody than I do anybody else, except maybe my elders cos of the polynesian values we place on respecting them

and I not so much hate but would rather not be around people that do front for different company and environments where it is not neccessary or culturally offensive not to...

I don't know how it was for you sizzle growing up in NY cos by then maybe the black thing had evolved out of hiphop to just become urban ghetto street culture appropriated by whites, hispanics and asians in which case as you were...

 

[luka]

haven't you got dreads though?
just out of interest.

 

[luka]

also i find it interesting that somone from a country with barely a single black person should have so much to say on the subject of black/white relations. have you ever even met someone black? honestly though?

maybe its becasue you live in the whitest city in the world it makes you think about race a lot or something, do you think?

 

[the undisputed truth]

yeah i got dreads, so what ???

...my sister in law is black and my best mates lady is black, he's white

my lady and her family are white jamaican, they adopted my sister in law and incidentally she was an extra in kingkong, there's a whole 2 second headshot of her

I think more about culture than race cos i'm so mixed blood i don't know what race i belong in, which just goes to show why it it doesn't serve to classify people by race...

...you know what it is ??? It's more like living in a very white city and suffering prejudice on all fronts from institutionalised cultural bigots kinda gets to ya after a while

substitute black for brown here and relations are pretty much the same as any other eurocentric colony...

 

[luka]

just saying...

personally, i like double standards

 

[the undisputed truth]

huh ???

my dreads are in homage to the vow of nazarenes not rasta and I been growing em since the conception of my first daughter....

...I don't do wine, beer is a totally different story though nor do I dine on the swine

I'm not all that but I try, hell no ones perfect...

 

[SIZZLE]

how do you think black guys wearing boots, rune symbols and ballheads would go down in mainstream society ???

I don't know how it was for you sizzle growing up in NY cos by then maybe the black thing had evolved out of hiphop to just become urban ghetto street culture appropriated by whites, hispanics and asians in which case as you were...

Snipped a bit there, but re the first part I don't think we're really talking about how it goes down in mainstream society, I think were more looking at undergrounds judging each other. I hung out with a black goth and a black skinhead in high school. They were some of the smartest, weirdest kids I knew. Very interesting people. And they very much did not care how the black or white mainstream judged them, they were trying to figure out who they were.

And I would argue that similar to rock and roll hiphop has become a global movement which has obviously taken it out into non-black, non-urban situations. I love driving through some rural area and seeing graf throwups on barns and overpasses, it's crazy as hell. And of course as this happens it risks dilution, co-optation, etc. Luckily though we are in a cultural period where black people can still largely control their own art and therefore lead the movement. I don't think all the little wiggers out in the middle of america, in tokyo (jiggers?) and in New Zealand (kiwiggers?) are hurting anyone by trying to copy black americana. If anything I hope it leads people to be generally less racist and more accepting of other peoples cultures. I think it worked this way for me, if it wasn't for rap music and hiphop culture I definitely wouldn't be friends with as many people of different races and maybe more importantly social/class backgrounds as I am. And I have to say, as far as recognizing certain political realities there is no substitute for being on the ground, where people live, and talking to them. You may find it unseemly or cringe inducing when some young ignorant wigger walks up and starts talking ebonics to you but who is he hurting? I think, awkward though the process may be all this stuff will only speed up the inevitable birth of more beige babies and the slow disappearance of a lot of these color lines. After a while it's gonna start getting difficult to tell us all apart, which in my eyes will do more good than harm.

 

[the undisputed truth]

it's hurting polynesian kids cos they think theyre living some global culture at the expense of their traditional polynesian culture and what under pins our traditional culture isn't the music, clothes, language, dance or art it's the values and that's what mainstream hiphop sadly lacks...

...you know stuff like honesty, respect, humility, integrity

so now we got little shitheads running round valuing guns, drugs, money, bitches, cars, beats and bling, wearing white tshirts, new era caps, airforce ones, talking smack like a hoodrat, rattling bones and taking pounds while developing the same cultural bias against outsiders as any defined by *race*

materialism meets malcolm X - GET RICH BY ANY MEANS NECCESSARY OR DIE TRYIN

...I would also argue that black people have lost control of their *culture* or souled it out to the highest bidder as means of advertising consumerist material culture to the youf market

I love a good tag as well as anyone and love how it breaks up a landscape while signalling a desperate cry for attention and an affirmation of identity but not at the expense of defacing someones private property...

yeah, i know about the zulu nation and KRS temple of hiphop but that's just mostly lipservice to the new breed of gangsta, thug wannabees proliferating most inner cities and reinforced by mainstream media as acceptable

I'm probably a first generation beige baby, proud of it and my kids are indistiguishable from half caste middle eastern kids i would imagine but inside their heads they couldn't be more different

 

[corneilius]

same various and diverse

We is all the same, within, in our basic physical, spiritual and emotional structure, and then there are variations both on the external level and on some internals too. Like music.

I love the variations! I hate the bigotry of exclusion or exclusivity! I am human first, a parent second, male third, a musician fourth, a part of you fifth and Irish, well it's a temporary illusion, though I do like the accent ..... and the excuse to fecking swear like a feckin eejit and feckin get the feck away with it ....

Big love to all dissensus variants!

 

[alo]

I dragged up this thread because I have just heard the new Primal Scream single. And I think they are possibly one of the worst groups ever.

 

[shaun L]

Viva hate

I have to use this thread to spew venom too...
I hate Squarepusher/Venetian Snares and that whole genre of music made by DNB inspired noodlers. Its all micro edited, muso, hairmetal jungle innit. A randomly selected drum and bass release from 1994-6 will almost certainly contain more uncanny beats, awesome sounds and general

 

[Troy]

It is a shame you hate Squarepusher because his music is really really really really really really really fabulous.

 

[Slothrop]

It is a shame you hate Squarepusher because his music is really really really really really really really fabulous.

Yep. People who claim that Squarepusher's music is far more interesting and innovative than the jungle that he ripped off are clearly Very Wrong, but that doesn't mean that Squarepusher's music isn't awesome in its own way too...

 

[shaun L]

Hmm, its possible that Squarepusher is fabulous, but regretably I can't listen to more than 10 seconds of his music without thinking- 'ARRRG, self-conciously intelligent imitation of breakbeat science' and then a fuse blows in my head. .

 

[mms]

Yep. People who claim that Squarepusher's music is far more interesting and innovative than the jungle that he ripped off are clearly Very Wrong, but that doesn't mean that Squarepusher's music isn't awesome in its own way too...

i think 90% of the time he is just trying to produce different end results with some of the means of production thats all.
some of it i like some of it i'm not so keen on, some of his best stuff doesn't have breakbeats in it at all and a complete absence of jungle.

 

[zhao]

I loved that shit for a minute back in 2000ish. now it is just annoying as hell. does not age well. and wears paper thin after 5 listens. that 2-steppy track "I wanna fuck you with my red hot car" is dope though