geopolitics

[IdleRich]

You start to see why there's no way Russia can ever accept Ukraine joining nato

But given that Russia invaded every country on their western border that wasn't backed by nato what were Ukraine to do?

 

[ver$hy ver$h]

That would be one of the dreams of technology, I suppose. The creation of that one smooth space. Frictionless trade, transport and communcation. The elimination of geography.

'Operation Ranch Hand' would be a very explicit example of this, the US trying to destroy the Vietnamese jungle.

Operation Ranch Hand - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Benny Bunter]

But given that Russia invaded every country on their western border that wasn't backed by nato what were Ukraine to do?

I don't know. They're in an imposible position geographically and have been for decades and decades going way way back. I feel really sorry for them. I don't think them joining nato will help matters probably just make it worse.

 

[luka]

silverdollar is doing a land invasion of seville

 

[Benny Bunter]

silverdollar is doing a land invasion of seville

I can't see this unfortunately

 

[Benny Bunter]

Geographically, the US being on the other side of the world is brilliant for them - they have the reach into europe and the middle east, but being fickle, when they decide to pull out they can do it safe in the knowledge there's no threat to their own borders. All they have to worry about geographically is Mexico to the south and Canada. Must be great. Russia doesn't have that same comfort.

 

[luka]

other side of the world, access to pacific and atlantic oceans, all types of oil and minerals and that. loads of food. invincible.

 

[yyaldrin]

What about Belarus is that crucially important too?

there's this thing called the european plain, people into geopolitics always talk about it, it's basically a stretch of land without mountains that would allow you to drive your tanks from russia to france, and the otherway around of course! since the baltic states are all nato that leaves ukraine and belarus to access it.

European Plain - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[yyaldrin]

from a russian POV, whether Ukraine is within the nato alliance is highly salient strategically - that's evident from their invasion. control of the north European plain is threatening to russia. its obvs quite similar to the prospect of russian bases in Ireland or scotland. they dont have to be threats, but if you wanted to threaten, they'd be highly useful

 

[IdleRich]

I don't know. They're in an imposible position geographically and have been for decades and decades going way way back. I feel really sorry for them. I don't think them joining nato will help matters probably just make it worse.

They can not join nato and be rolled over, or ally with nato and at least have some mates when they're invaded, I know which I'd go for.

 

[IdleRich]

Geographically, the US being on the other side of the world is brilliant for them - they have the reach into europe and the middle east, but being fickle, when they decide to pull out they can do it safe in the knowledge there's no threat to their own borders. All they have to worry about geographically is Mexico to the south and Canada. Must be great. Russia doesn't have that same comfort.

They should never have sold Alaska

 

[mixed_biscuits]

I'm no expert, but I think Ukraine was probably the most serious battleground in ww2. Terribly unlucky place to live, caught between these two great rival powers.

Russia and Romania

 

[luka]

You start to see why there's no way Russia can ever accept Ukraine joining nato

Thats craners issue with it. It does away with agency, responsibility, ethics

 

[luka]

The great european plain leaves us no choice

 

[luka]

Maybe the Russians should build a mountain range

 

[yyaldrin]

or turn the plain into a thick lush forest that it once was

 

[luka]

Phytosociology, also known as phytocoenology or simply plant sociology, is the study of groups of species of plant that are usually found together. Phytosociology aims to empirically describe the vegetative environment of a given territory. A specific community of plants is considered a social unit, the product of definite conditions, present and past, and can exist only when such conditions are met. In phyto-sociology, such a unit is known as a phytocoenosis (or phytocoenose). A phytocoenosis is more commonly known as a plant community, and consists of the sum of all plants in a given area. It is a subset of a biocoenosis, which consists of all organisms in a given area. More strictly speaking, a phytocoenosis is a set of plants in area that are interacting with each other through competition or other ecological processes. Coenoses are not equivalent to ecosystems, which consist of organisms and the physical environment that they interact with. A phytocoensis has a distribution which can be mapped.

 

[Mr. Tea]

by the same logic the us has to end up in posession of greenland

Same with Britain and Ireland, when you think about it.

 

[Benny Bunter]

Thats craners issue with it. It does away with agency, responsibility, ethics

Well, it does if you take it as the only factor, which I wouldn't want to do, but it's obviously very important.

 

[IdleRich]

They can not join nato and be rolled over, or ally with nato and at least have some mates when they're invaded, I know which I'd go for.

Or in other words if you're where they are you can assume Russia is gonna invade at some point, why would you not try to get into NATO?